26 Nov
2003
26 Nov
'03
6:36 p.m.
I notice a couple of people have subscribed to the list in the last day or
so. Hello, and welcome; would you like to introduce yourselves briefly?
Cheers,
Earle.
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.org
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
26 Nov
26 Nov
7 p.m.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 06:36:47PM +0000, Earle Martin wrote:
I notice a couple of people have subscribed to the
list in the last day or
so. Hello, and welcome; would you like to introduce yourselves briefly?
Well, it was more than a day or so ago, now, but I seem not to have said
hi either.
"Hi."
Thanks to Dom, a Nottingham OpenGuide now exists, though I've not yet
advertised it widely, or accumulated significant amounts of content;
I've not had time to lavish significant amounts of time on it yet, alas.
It lives at http://www.ox.compsoc.net/nottinghamguide/ , though.
Since I appear to be running an OpenGuide, it seemed quite sensible to
lurk on this list, really :-)
Cheers,
James.
8:14 p.m.
hi Earle, everyone,
I'm a Semantic Web developer based in Bristol, and I was pointed at Open
Guides by Dan Brickley. I've been watching developments with
great interest. I love the idea (and I'd love to help set one up for
Bristol, although I'm not sure if I'll have the time).
I'm currently interested in creating and using RDF interfaces like the
one that Open Guides makes available, and I've been chatting a bit with
Kake about that after reading her excellent perl.com article.
I've got a little bot that can talk to the RDF interface among other
things - http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/10/whwhwhwh/
- but I'm also interested in ways of combining open guides data with
other geographical and related information e.g. about events, transport,
to provide services, using for example svg interfaces, mobile phones.
cheers,
Libby
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Earle Martin wrote:
I notice a couple of people have subscribed to the
list in the last day or
so. Hello, and welcome; would you like to introduce yourselves briefly?
Cheers,
Earle.
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.org
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
--
OpenGuides-Dev mailing list
OpenGuides-Dev(a)openguides.org
http://realprogrammers.com/mm/listinfo/openguides-dev
27 Nov
27 Nov
9:40 a.m.
Earle Martin wrote:
I notice a couple of people have subscribed to the list
in the last day or
so. Hello, and welcome; would you like to introduce yourselves briefly?
Hi people. =)
My turn I guess.
I'm a programmer based in Oslo, working for Mediaflex a/s with web to
print solutions mostly with connection to the real estate market. The
reason I subscribed here is http://thefeed.no/oslo/ . Like James, I
figured it would be sensible to lurk here. I really like the
OpenGuides, my main problem now is getting my lazy friends to contribute
=) The main motivation for us is to keep track of interesting things to
do in Oslo. Still, the site is in english to please the tourists =)
Ps. I would really like to be able to track beer prices for different
pubs as that is a major concern here (1/2 l costs from 27-60 nkr (3-7
euro, averaging on 5-6)), any suggestions for the best way to do that?
Marcus
11:01 a.m.
On Thu 27 Nov 2003, Marcus Ramberg <marcus(a)thefeed.no> wrote:
I really like the OpenGuides, my main problem now is
getting my lazy
friends to contribute =)
Keep telling people about it. Just keep plugging it, lots, whenever
appropriate. See if you can get some local groups to use it as their
main point of reference for meeting places and so on - for example,
London.pm meeting announcements nearly always have an Open Guide to
London URL to show people more information about where we're meeting.
If you're meeting some friends in a pub, make an OpenGuides page for
it and put the URL in the email you send around. Any time you want to
tell someone something about your city, don't write it in an email;
put it on an OpenGuides page and send the URL.
Ps. I would really like to be able to track beer
prices for different
pubs as that is a major concern here (1/2 l costs from 27-60 nkr (3-7
euro, averaging on 5-6)), any suggestions for the best way to do that?
Track in what way? You could do something like add pubs to categories like
Average Beer Price 25-35 nkr
Average Beer Price 35-45 nkr
etc
and then get me to mess with the pubsearch
http://london.openguides.org/pubsearch.cgi
to give you a dropdown with those categories in.
Is that the sort of thing you're after?
Kake
12:17 p.m.
Kate L Pugh wrote:
more like registering the price of 1/2l as metadata, and then being able
to find the 10 cheapest and the 10 most expensive pubs... stuff like that.
Marcus
Keep telling people about it. Just keep plugging it,
lots, whenever
appropriate. See if you can get some local groups to use it as their
main point of reference for meeting places and so on - for example,
London.pm meeting announcements nearly always have an Open Guide to
London URL to show people more information about where we're meeting.
If you're meeting some friends in a pub, make an OpenGuides page for
it and put the URL in the email you send around. Any time you want to
tell someone something about your city, don't write it in an email;
put it on an OpenGuides page and send the URL.
Sounds like good approach. =) Thanks for the tips.
Ps. I would
really like to be able to track beer prices for different
pubs as that is a major concern here (1/2 l costs from 27-60 nkr (3-7
euro, averaging on 5-6)), any suggestions for the best way to do that?
Track in what way? You could do something like add pubs to categories like
Average Beer Price 25-35 nkr
Average Beer Price 35-45 nkr
etc
and then get me to mess with the pubsearch
http://london.openguides.org/pubsearch.cgi
to give you a dropdown with those categories in.
Is that the sort of thing you're after?
11:58 a.m.
On Thu 27 Nov 2003, Marcus Ramberg <marcus(a)thefeed.no> wrote:
more like registering the price of 1/2l as metadata,
and then being able
to find the 10 cheapest and the 10 most expensive pubs... stuff like that.
This reminds me of a good idea Mark had to make it easy to create new
pages - a Pub Wizard. You'd click on "add a new pub" and you'd get a
form with as much information as possible already added in, hints as
to what categories you might like to add the pub to, that sort of thing.
I've cc'ed Mark in on this in the hope that he can expand on this a bit.
The big advantage of this would be that we could provide pub-specific
metadata boxes without cluttering up the general edit form.
Kake
12:23 p.m.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 11:58:41AM +0000, Kate L Pugh wrote:
This reminds me of a good idea Mark had to make it
easy to create new
pages - a Pub Wizard. You'd click on "add a new pub" and you'd get a
form with as much information as possible already added in, hints as
to what categories you might like to add the pub to, that sort of thing.
I've cc'ed Mark in on this in the hope that he can expand on this a bit.
The big advantage of this would be that we could provide pub-specific
metadata boxes without cluttering up the general edit form.
Is the intention here to prefill structured metadata into the main text?
This would seem like a large step backwards. The solution I guess is to
have a restricted default edit form with buttons to show specific
categories of metadata in the form (which may be exactly what you mean
by the wizard, it's not entirely clear). So:
"unhide pub-specific fields"
"unhide restuarant-specific fields"
etc etc. This could be combined with a set of tickboxes on the "create
page" form.
Cheers,
Dominic.
12:34 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Pub wizards [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 11:58:41AM +0000, Kate L Pugh wrote:
> This reminds me of a good idea Mark had to make it
easy to create new
> pages - a Pub Wizard. You'd click on "add a new pub" and you'd get
a
> form with as much information as possible already added in, hints as
> to what categories you might like to add the pub to, that sort of thing.
On Thu 27 Nov 2003, Dominic Hargreaves <dom(a)earth.li> wrote:
Is the intention here to prefill structured metadata
into the main text?
Nonononono. You'd prefill 'Pubs' into the Category box. Actually
that might be the only useful thing to prefill.
The solution I guess is to have a restricted default
edit form with
buttons to show specific categories of metadata in the form (which
may be exactly what you mean by the wizard, it's not entirely clear).
Yes, that's the kind of thing.
"unhide pub-specific fields"
"unhide restuarant-specific fields"
etc etc. This could be combined with a set of tickboxes on the "create
page" form.
Yes, that might be a good way to do it.
Kake
12:43 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Pub wizards [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 12:34:19PM +0000, Kate L Pugh wrote:
Right. At the moment the presence of location-specific fields and so on
when you edit a non-geographic node is confusing; it would be nice to have
them hidden by default if you create a "Category $whatever" page, or even
disabled completely (i.e. not there).
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.org
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
"unhide
pub-specific fields"
"unhide restuarant-specific fields"
etc etc. This could be combined with a set of tickboxes on the "create
page" form.
Yes, that might be a good way to do it.
12:51 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Pub wizards [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 12:43:33PM +0000, Earle Martin wrote:
Right. At the moment the presence of location-specific
fields and so on
when you edit a non-geographic node is confusing; it would be nice to have
them hidden by default if you create a "Category $whatever" page, or even
disabled completely (i.e. not there).
I'd have thought to keep the backend simple it should just be a cosmetic
change. That would of course mean that people could hack the forms in
order to fill "invalid" data though; I suppose it depends whether we
think that is likely to be a problem.
Dominic.
1:04 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Pub wizards [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Thu, Nov 27, 2003 at 12:51:17PM +0000, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
I'd have thought to keep the backend simple it
should just be a cosmetic
change. That would of course mean that people could hack the forms in
order to fill "invalid" data though; I suppose it depends whether we
think that is likely to be a problem.
If we had a mechanism to specify a node as being of a particular type -
modify the new page maker to first ask you what kind of node you want to
create? - I don't see people entering irrelevant metadata as being a
problem, because then a page marked as being of a particular type would
simply not show irrelevant metadata at all, regardless of whether it had
been entered or not. If people did mess around and enter irrelevant
metadata, the system could accept it silently and not apparently do
anything (the 'non-failure failure' approach) or return some kind of error.
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.org
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
6:13 p.m.
Earle Martin schrieb:
I notice a couple of people have subscribed to the
list in the last day or
so. Hello, and welcome; would you like to introduce yourselves briefly?
Yes, hi, i
am one of those people.
I am planning on running a Hamburg OpenGuide, so i subscribed...
I did not come round to install the software by now because a) it needs
so many perl modules installed and b) i am not root at my site
gabistapler.de (it's shared hosting) so installing it will be pretty
difficult and c) i don't have all that much time right now.
I hope to get it up and running in January.
Is there anybody who has done a non-root install and can point me
towards how to do it? (I do have SSH shell access on my server so
installing Openguides should be possible by putting perl modules in a
local directory).
Also, what about location information for non-UK cities?
28 Nov
28 Nov
11:54 a.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Location data for non-UK cities [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Thu 27 Nov 2003, Gunnar Th?le <list(a)gabistapler.de> wrote:
Yes, hi, i am one of those people.
Hello Gunnar, and welcome to the list.
Is there anybody who has done a non-root install and
can point me
towards how to do it?
I can only tell you how to do a manual install because I don't use
either CPAN.pm or CPANPLUS. It's not difficult though.
Some modules use ExtUtils::MakeMaker (they have a Makefile.PL) and
others use Module::Build (they have a Build.PL though they may also
have a Makefile.PL).
For Module::Build modules, see the OpenGuides TROUBLESHOOTING file,
which comes with the distribution but can also be viewed online:
http://search.cpan.org/src/KAKE/OpenGuides-0.29/TROUBLESHOOTING
You also want to read the second section of that file, which explains
some extra things you will need to do to the CGI scripts after install.
For ExtUtils::MakeMaker modules, the incantation is:
perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/my/directory
make && make test && make install
(I have been assuming unix here since you mentioned root.)
Also, what about location information for non-UK
cities?
It's not done yet, but you knew that already or you wouldn't have
asked. You can use Locales, and you can use the map link, phone,
address, etc fields - but not the OS X/OS Y fields. Now I can give
you different fields - for latitude/longitude, or if your city is
covered by a square grid like the British National Grid, boxes for
those co-ordinates. Then the problem is one of *using* the data.
Square grids are easy to work out distances on. I'm considering those
to be a solved problem.
Working out distance between places specified by latitude and
longitude may be trickier. There is Geo::Distance on CPAN but
its docs warn:
"The formula used for [great] circle distances is also somewhat
unreliable for small distances (for locations separated less than
about five degrees) because it uses arc cosine which is rather
ill-conditioned for values close to zero."
And that's not so good when you consider that we're working out
distances within a city.
Any ideas anyone?
Kake
12:21 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Location data for non-UK cities [Was: Re: New arrivals]
On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 11:54:53AM +0000, Kate L Pugh wrote:
Working out distance between places specified by
latitude and
longitude may be trickier. There is Geo::Distance on CPAN but
its docs warn:
"The formula used for [great] circle distances is also somewhat
unreliable for small distances (for locations separated less than
about five degrees) because it uses arc cosine which is rather
ill-conditioned for values close to zero."
And that's not so good when you consider that we're working out
distances within a city.
Within a city you can ignore the curvature. Just assume that the grid
is square. Or maybe rectangular for the far north/south. It helps that
there are very few significant or big places in the arctic, and none in
the antarctic.
Assume square, with patches welcome from eskimos and penguins ;-)
--
David Cantrell | Degenerate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david
Moo, chomp, burp. It's the natural order of things
-- Dave McGuire
29 Nov
29 Nov
10:57 a.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Location data for non-UK cities [Was: Re: Newarrivals]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cantrell" <david(a)cantrell.org.uk>
To: "Discussion of development on the OpenGuides software"
<openguides-dev(a)openguides.org>
Sent: 28 November 2003 12:21
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] Location data for non-UK cities [Was: Re: Newarrivals]
On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 11:54:53AM +0000, Kate L Pugh
wrote:
Strangely enough, Earle and I were discussing doing just that in the pub
after the london.pm tech meet.
I feel a module coming on. How about Geography::Grid
Working out distance between places specified by
latitude and
longitude may be trickier. There is Geo::Distance on CPAN but
its docs warn:
"The formula used for [great] circle distances is also somewhat
unreliable for small distances (for locations separated less than
about five degrees) because it uses arc cosine which is rather
ill-conditioned for values close to zero."
And that's not so good when you consider that we're working out
distances within a city.
Within a city you can ignore the curvature. Just assume that the grid
is square. Or maybe rectangular for the far north/south. It helps that
there are very few significant or big places in the arctic, and none in
the antarctic.
1 Dec
1 Dec
1:54 p.m.
New subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] Location data for non-UK cities [Was: Re: New arrivals]
Kate L Pugh schrieb:
Yes, i
knew that.
I am not very good at perl programming, so i think i can't help very
much, sorry.
I can only tell you how to do a manual install because
I don't use
either CPAN.pm or CPANPLUS. It's not difficult though.
Well, i think i can do
that. It will work, somehow, so stay tuned for
the Hamburg Openguide in January.
Also, what
about location information for non-UK cities?
It's not done yet, but you knew that already or you wouldn't have asked. You can use Locales, and you can use the map
link, phone,
address, etc fields - but not the OS X/OS Y fields. Now I can give
you different fields - for latitude/longitude, or if your city is
covered by a square grid like the British National Grid, boxes for
those co-ordinates. Then the problem is one of *using* the data.
It is quite
common to use so-called "Gauss-Krueger Coordinates", these
are printed on official maps (they are NOT printed onto the Falkplan
(Falkplan is for Hamburg what A-Z is for London)).
These are long numerals having latitude and longitude coded into them.
They are not square coordinates...
There is a quite useful feature: One of germany's mobile phone networks
broadcasts the Gauss-Krueger coordinates of their base stations. So
people wandering around Hamburg making entries for the guide can easily
read location coordinates from their telephone. These are not very
accurate, but better than nothing.
Working out distance between places specified by
latitude and
longitude may be trickier. There is Geo::Distance on CPAN but
How big is the error
if we just assume the earth to be a plane instead
of a ball? This makes calculation of distances from Latitude/Longitude
pretty simple.
Hamburg is approx. 50km across.
7311
days inactive
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openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
16 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
David Cantrell -
Dominic Hargreaves -
Earle Martin -
Gunnar Thöle -
Ivor Williams -
James Green -
Kate L Pugh -
Libby Miller -
Marcus Ramberg