This was originally posted as a private reply, but really there's no reason why I shouldn't go public with it. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: a first shot at some questions.... Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:15:09 +0100 From: Ivor Williams To: M.B.Gaved <M.B.Gaved(a)open.ac.uk>uk>, t.heath(a)open.ac.uk References: <E0FEA5DF00E59E409F90C854A1B45BAA6B600C(a)EPPING-EVS1.open.ac.uk> My answer to this question depends on how technical or otherwise, the person is. For the completely non-technical, I describe the Guide as a website with lots of reviews of pubs and restaurants, and useful information about anything in London. For the more technical, I use the word wiki, and explain (if they don't know the concept) that anyone can contribute. I think it's quite a broad portfolio. The initial intention was targetting the guide at geeks. As such, the initial subjects we were covering were ones of interest to geeks, particularly London.pm. However, I saw the guide as having a much broader scope, and started writing pages that could be of interest to anybody, and the content has developed along those lines. In terms of the current user base, I think it's quite diverse. I keep running into people who've already heard of OpenGuides. I have personally had feedback from CAMRA, from an employee of London Transport, and from trade unionists finding my page on the West London Trades Union Club. I think the primary function is to inform. A second aim is to be objective. A third is to provide a vehicle for feedback, and rapid updating by the virtual community that exists on account of their discovering OpenGuides. Other city guides tend to be commercial, pandering to the wishes of paying sponsors, and of limited use and limited objectivity. Also, because "anyone can edit", I feel comfortable that I can visit an establishment listed in the guide, and update it with my findings. Compared with other wikis, the structured metadata is what sets OpenGuides apart. In particular, the geodata can be used for finding distances and plotting points on maps. I've not seen other wikis that can do this. My rules for contributors are set down in the page "Wiki Etiquette", which was entirely my own wording. Common sense is the principle that applies - I translated this into the Wiki Etiquette page so that others would have a reference point where we could all agree on our policy. This page has had to evolve over time, with changes in software, changes in copyright and licensing policy, and in the light of various kinds of abuse and attacks. When it comes to admin decisions, the "common sense" rule applies. If we're unsure we'll probably make a change (or change the node back) but keeping the controvertial revision available. Something that's blatant spam or offensive, will just get deleted. More recently, I have been keeping an admin log page for deletes, so that we have a record, including recording the IP addresses of any spammers and suchlike. I tend to email the other admins directly (not via a list) for matters which are sensitive, e.g. a security hole I discovered early on. This was through London Perl Mongers. I was one of the 3 founders of the first guide - involved both as a major contributor, and as a software developer. In terms of roles, I do pretty much everything bar the hosting. I don't have access to the box OGLondon is running on, but I run a mirrored copy on a couple of my machines. The original goal of a useful guide to London that people can edit and keep up to date, has definitely been met, and is continuing to be met. The goal of sharing data and building a community of mutually supporting websites is being met, albeit from a specialist niche. I'm finding it difficult to separate the goals of OGLondon and the goals of the OpenGuides project as a whole, since I am involved with the big picture, including software development. In many ways, I now think it's important to keep a standard common code base that all guides can share. It's tempting to look at ways of improving the software for London, but this feels wrong to me. Many of the developments that have happened, have been applied to individual guides, leading to a fragmented picture - this has created work for developers merging these patches in order for everyone to get the benefit. This is one of my main hobbies and loves. I don't see myself losing interest. The most extreme case of vandalism was in September 2005, when Brazilian hackers managed to trash the London database. This took us offline for a few weeks, and lost some updates. We also get regular spam attacks, though we are looking at ways of combatting them in software. Version history has been a godsend here, as we can always see what was there before, and indeed "diff" the content. The spam situation for London is under control, as enough admins watch the recent changes, and spam gets deleted fairly promptly. We've also had salesmen creating pages for their own establishments - restaurants, aromatherapy, a chain of car showrooms, even TimeOut magazine! What happens is that we tend to blockquote what has been written as "Some anonymous contributor, presumably from XYZ, wrote the following:" and add that one of our regular contributors will review the place properly. There was also the skating wars - two rival skate clubs, one of which was defacing the entry for the other, which resulted in a ban. And there was the pedicabs page, where someone keeps changing some of the web links so they don't work. I tend to spot edits like that, and reach for the "delete" and file the IP address in the Admin Log. I don't actually have the power to ban anybody, but I would drop a mail to those that do. Word of mouth, and internet. We don't have any paid advertising, as this is not only a potential waste of money, but would also probably upset a few of our community as getting commercial. We had the same reaction when we tried running Google ads. Sometimes if I'm in the mood in a pub or restaurant, I'll mention to the proprietor that I have a website that does reviews, and will be writing one when I get home. This has got me a free drink on a couple of occasions. In terms of London, I think the goal of a useful guide has been met. Our coverage is patchy, but that is due to the distribution of our contributors' homes and workplaces. Over time this will improve. I think we have built a successful community of contributors. In terms of Google search league ladders, we are well up there. For OpenGuides as a whole, there is still much to do. Much of this is in the realm of software development, but we could also do more in terms of spreading the word across the globe. There are many cities that have potential for a guide - it's just a matter of people who are there linking up to create guides. I see this as a continuous process, rather than a project with a defined finishing line. How serious about it are you? How much time have you got to put into it? This is going to occupy you if you want to get it off the ground. How many people have you got to help as contributors? You need a minimum of 3 (counting yourself), ideally between 3 and 12. Once you have launched, you will hopefully acquire new contributors. How long before you can get to 100 pages? Set this as your first milestone. Don't try and launch until you've got 100 pages. If you are talking about siphoning content from somewhere else, that's different - you may be able to launch straight away. If this is the case, double check things like copyright and terms of use. Don't worry too much about the technicalities of hosting - we can offer that to you as a service if you need it (but if you want to host your own guide, that's OK too). What we can't do for you is: (a) be there at your city and (b) have all the local knowledge to write detailed pages. Have a good look at the other guides that are out there, and make use of the best ideas (in your mind). Join the dev list if you are running a guide. That's the best way of finding out what else is happening to OpenGuides elsewhere. Also hang out on IRC, where you'll find plenty of others running guides.