Hello OpenGuiders! Here is my new OpenGuides site: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/
I hope you like it.
Kake
On Wed 01 Aug 2012, Kake kake@earth.li wrote:
Hello OpenGuiders! Here is my new OpenGuides site: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/
I hope you like it.
Well, that was a resounding silence. OK, I will give you some more reasons to check it out, and possibly take some of the ideas for your own Open Guides (or indeed talk me/someone into putting them into core Wiki::Toolkit/OpenGuides).
External links: I've hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod to remove the square brackets from external links, and instead include a class of "external", which lets you style it with CSS. On CGC, we have a little pointy arrow thing for these, like on Wikipedia.
Category/locale prefixes: Again with a W::T::F::U hack, I've made a new "INDEX_LIST_NO_PREFIX" macro, which suppresses the leading "Locale" or "Category" when listing; see for example: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Category_Retail_Shops
Along-the-street navigation: Because this is a completists' guide, the aim is to include every business on every street within our area of interest (something that I believe the Oxford Guide is also planning to do). This means that it makes sense to have some visual way of showing a place's neighbours. On CGC I've done this with a set of 5 thumbnails at the bottom of each page, showing the two neighbours on either side. See e.g. http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Maplin,_166_North_End
I did this by (a) adding new macros to make it easier to add those thumbnails, and (b) writing a script that takes a list of existing page names, finds the thumbnails using Flickr::API2, and writes the "neighbours" div into each page. I also hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Search::Plucene to ignore anything within this div when indexing the pages.
Metadata display: I've moved the postcode field up to join onto the rest of the address, and moved the map links to one side underneath the inline node map, to make the metadata display look a bit less "wall of text" like. I will also be separating out the categories (and maybe locales) at some point, though I'm not yet sure where to put them.
Restricted editing: The public face of the guide is read-only. Editing is accomplished via an /edit/ subdirectory which contains copies of the CGI scripts and a wiki.conf that's identical to the public one except for being set to editable - this directory is protected with HTTP auth. Edit links on the public side appear only for viewers who've set their preferences to show admin links, and go directly to the edit side. This is a refinement of the technique I used previously on http://london-crafts.org/
Maps: I've added Stamen Watercolour and Google Satellite View to the options already provided in core OpenGuides (OpenStreetMap and MapQuest).
Colours: IT IS PURPLE. What other reason do you need to love it?
Kake
On 5 Aug 2012, at 11:42, Kake wrote:
External links: I've hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod to remove the square brackets from external links, and instead include a class of "external", which lets you style it with CSS. On CGC, we have a little pointy arrow thing for these, like on Wikipedia.
Approve!
Category/locale prefixes: Again with a W::T::F::U hack, I've made a new "INDEX_LIST_NO_PREFIX" macro, which suppresses the leading "Locale" or "Category" when listing; see for example: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Category_Retail_Shops
Also approve!
Along-the-street navigation: Because this is a completists' guide, the aim is to include every business on every street within our area of interest (something that I believe the Oxford Guide is also planning to do). This means that it makes sense to have some visual way of showing a place's neighbours. On CGC I've done this with a set of 5 thumbnails at the bottom of each page, showing the two neighbours on either side. See e.g. http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Maplin,_166_North_End
Looks useful; may also be an interesting way to navigate between search results on non-completist wiki guides?
I did this by (a) adding new macros to make it easier to add those thumbnails, and (b) writing a script that takes a list of existing page names, finds the thumbnails using Flickr::API2, and writes the "neighbours" div into each page. I also hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Search::Plucene to ignore anything within this div when indexing the pages.
Metadata display: I've moved the postcode field up to join onto the rest of the address, and moved the map links to one side underneath the inline node map, to make the metadata display look a bit less "wall of text" like. I will also be separating out the categories (and maybe locales) at some point, though I'm not yet sure where to put them.
I particularly like the inline node map, which I would happily see added to other wiki guides, including RGL. I might personally be tempted to hide the other map links behind an "other maps" link with a bit of javascript magic on browsers that support such things, but this is a question of taste. (Perhaps several questions of taste...)
Restricted editing: The public face of the guide is read-only. Editing is accomplished via an /edit/ subdirectory which contains copies of the CGI scripts and a wiki.conf that's identical to the public one except for being set to editable - this directory is protected with HTTP auth. Edit links on the public side appear only for viewers who've set their preferences to show admin links, and go directly to the edit side. This is a refinement of the technique I used previously on http://london-crafts.org/
Maps: I've added Stamen Watercolour and Google Satellite View to the options already provided in core OpenGuides (OpenStreetMap and MapQuest).
I guess there's an interesting larger question here about how to choose which maps to offer, and who should do it. I don't like the Wikipedia solution, which IMO involves too much indirection and too much choice. Having the wiki operator make a selection that feels appropriate to them is a reasonable and simple compromise, but it doesn't feel ideal. It might be optimal, however.
S
On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Stephen Jolly wrote:
On 5 Aug 2012, at 11:42, Kake wrote:
Metadata display: I've moved the postcode field up to join onto the rest of the address, and moved the map links to one side underneath the inline node map, to make the metadata display look a bit less "wall of text" like. I will also be separating out the categories (and maybe locales) at some point, though I'm not yet sure where to put them.
I particularly like the inline node map, which I would happily see added to other wiki guides, including RGL.
its actually what core openguides does. just on rgl we choose to not display it.
I might personally be tempted to hide the other map links behind an "other maps" link with a bit of javascript magic on browsers that support such things, but this is a question of taste. (Perhaps several questions of taste...)
which is what rgl does.
Maps: I've added Stamen Watercolour and Google Satellite View to the options already provided in core OpenGuides (OpenStreetMap and MapQuest).
I guess there's an interesting larger question here about how to choose which maps to offer, and who should do it. I don't like the Wikipedia solution, which IMO involves too much indirection and too much choice. Having the wiki operator make a selection that feels appropriate to them is a reasonable and simple compromise, but it doesn't feel ideal. It might be optimal, however.
On 5 Aug 2012, at 11:42, Kake wrote:
I've hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod to remove the square brackets from external links, and instead include a class of "external", which lets you style it with CSS. [...] I've made a new "INDEX_LIST_NO_PREFIX" macro, which suppresses the leading "Locale" or "Category" when listing; see for example: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Category_Retail_Shops
On Mon 06 Aug 2012, Stephen Jolly steve@jollys.org wrote:
Approve! [...] Also approve!
OK, I think these should probably go into the Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod and OpenGuides core (respectively). I will make it so, unless someone tells me not to in the next few hours! In the case of the UseMod formatter, I'll do it with an extra option to ->new, probably something like "external_link_class" (which takes a string argument that will be used as the CSS class for the links - "external" in our case). If this option isn't provided then the old behaviour will occur.
Me:
Along-the-street navigation: [...] a set of 5 thumbnails at the bottom of each page, showing the two neighbours on either side. See e.g. http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Maplin,_166_North_End
Steve:
Looks useful; may also be an interesting way to navigate between search results on non-completist wiki guides?
Unsure about this - it might suggest a sort of ordered connection between the results that isn't actually present? Oh, though it might be good when the search is a proximity search rather than a text string search.
I particularly like the inline node map, which I would happily see added to other wiki guides, including RGL. I might personally be tempted to hide the other map links behind an "other maps" link with a bit of javascript magic on browsers that support such things, but this is a question of taste. (Perhaps several questions of taste...)
As bob said, inline node maps are core OpenGuides. I can't remember now why we decided not to put them on RGL. This decision perhaps needs revisiting!
bob also mentioned that the map links are hidden with JavaScript on RGL. Possibly worth pointing out that these extra map links aren't core OpenGuides - they're done with custom templates on RGL and CGC. This probably ties into your point below:
I guess there's an interesting larger question here about how to choose which maps to offer, and who should do it. I don't like the Wikipedia solution, which IMO involves too much indirection and too much choice. Having the wiki operator make a selection that feels appropriate to them is a reasonable and simple compromise, but it doesn't feel ideal. It might be optimal, however.
I don't like the Wikipedia solution either; I think it's very confusing.
Kake
On 5 Aug 2012, at 11:42, Kake wrote:
I've hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod to remove the square brackets from external links, and instead include a class of "external", which lets you style it with CSS.
This is now in the CPAN version of the UseMod formatter (thanks Dom!) which means that my thoughts turn to applying it to OpenGuides. Should we just make this change in the core, i.e. set the "external_link_class" option when creating the wiki object in OpenGuides::Utils, or should there be a config option for it?
I am strongly tempted to just make the change, with no config option, since anyone wanting the old behaviour can get it back by using :before and :after pseudoclasses in CSS.
Thoughts, please!
Kake
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 04:59:07PM +0100, Kake wrote:
On 5 Aug 2012, at 11:42, Kake wrote:
I've hacked Wiki::Toolkit::Formatter::UseMod to remove the square brackets from external links, and instead include a class of "external", which lets you style it with CSS.
This is now in the CPAN version of the UseMod formatter (thanks Dom!) which means that my thoughts turn to applying it to OpenGuides. Should we just make this change in the core, i.e. set the "external_link_class" option when creating the wiki object in OpenGuides::Utils, or should there be a config option for it?
I am strongly tempted to just make the change, with no config option, since anyone wanting the old behaviour can get it back by using :before and :after pseudoclasses in CSS.
Thoughts, please!
Yep, I'm happy with this.
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012, Kake wrote (re external links):
I am strongly tempted to just make the change, with no config option, since anyone wanting the old behaviour can get it back by using :before and :after pseudoclasses in CSS.
On Mon 13 Aug 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Yep, I'm happy with this.
Done! Along with a few other changes - we probably have enough to make a release worthwhile now.
Kake
On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 11:42:36AM +0100, Kake wrote:
On Wed 01 Aug 2012, Kake kake@earth.li wrote:
Hello OpenGuiders! Here is my new OpenGuides site: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/ I hope you like it.
Well, that was a resounding silence.
Me like. But I almost never go into Croydon these days and so probably won't actually *use* it.
Along-the-street navigation: Because this is a completists' guide, the aim is to include every business on every street within our area of interest (something that I believe the Oxford Guide is also planning to do). This means that it makes sense to have some visual way of showing a place's neighbours. On CGC I've done this with a set of 5 thumbnails at the bottom of each page, showing the two neighbours on either side. See e.g. http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Maplin,_166_North_End
This is excellent. However, I have two nits to pick.
First, the second row should have Forbidden Planet on it, for consistency with the top row. But I think I'd prefer that the neighbour for something on a corner be the road itself, and not what's the other side of the road.
Second, have you thought about how to handle vertical neighbours? When there's only two floors, they'll normally have two separate entrances onto the street, so you can just list them in order of their entrances, but when there are three floors under separate occupation (there are lots of these - shop on the ground floor, accountant on the first, lawyer on the second, for example) then all the upper floors normally share one entrance from the street. You occasionally even get multiple businesses sharing one entrance on the ground floor.
On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 11:42:36AM +0100, Kake wrote:
On CGC I've done this with a set of 5 thumbnails at the bottom of each page, showing the two neighbours on either side. See e.g. http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Maplin,_166_North_End
On Mon 13 Aug 2012, David Cantrell david@cantrell.org.uk wrote:
First, the second row should have Forbidden Planet on it, for consistency with the top row.
Agreed! This was an oversight which I will correct.
Another question is how long a gap between neighbours is permissible. See for example Tamworth Road: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?action=index&format=map&ca...
Should 175 North End (ex Forbidden Planet) be a neighbour of Coco Hair and Beauty? They're quite a long way apart.
But I think I'd prefer that the neighbour for something on a corner be the road itself, and not what's the other side of the road.
Hm, maybe. I would like to get the indication of the cross-road in somewhere, but I don't think it should be the actual _neighbour_, as in having a little square thumbnail like the others. For one thing, not all cross-roads have their own locale, and hence there would be nothing to link to. And for another, it would remove the easy back-and-forth - at the moment, I can click on Paddy Power, read the page, then click on Maplin again to go back. If it had the Station Road page in between, there isn't an obvious place on that page (http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?Locale_Station_Road) to put the thumbnail navigation, and it isn't obvious that it really makes sense to have North End navigation on that page (though perhaps it does make sense?)
Perhaps there could be a way to do a sort of vertically-oriented link or something between the squares (vertically-oriented so it doesn't take loads of horizontal space, link instead of thumbnail to make it visually distinctive) - not sure this is possible or usable though (can you change text direction in CSS? I know you can rotate divs).
Second, have you thought about how to handle vertical neighbours? When there's only two floors, they'll normally have two separate entrances onto the street, so you can just list them in order of their entrances, but when there are three floors under separate occupation (there are lots of these - shop on the ground floor, accountant on the first, lawyer on the second, for example) then all the upper floors normally share one entrance from the street. You occasionally even get multiple businesses sharing one entrance on the ground floor.
I'm not sure how best to do this at the moment. As you say, when there are separate entrances it's easy. In the more extreme cases of lots of businesses sharing the same entrance I've just put them all on one page, e.g.: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/wiki.cgi?17-21_George_Street
but it's not obvious when to switch from one model (one page per business) to the other (grouping businesses).
Note that vertical neighbours are also a problem on 2-D maps! I've got around this by just displacing the pointers slightly, e.g. see the Whitgift Centre: http://croydon.randomness.org.uk/edit/wiki.cgi?action=index;format=map;loc=w... Amai and Boots, for example, are one on top of the other.
Kake
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