Dear fellow OG admins, developers, interested parties
Mark Gaved and Tom Heath here, we look after the Milton Keynes Open Guide (kindly hosted and sysadmin'd by Christoper Schmidt) we're also PhD students at the Open University.
We're thinking of putting in a paper to WikiSym 2006 (http://www.wikisym.org/ws2006/) describing the Open Guides: discussing what people are doing, what we all hope to achieve, how Open Guides differ from other wikis or community information resources.
The Open Guides appeal to us as wikis that serve physically co-located communities. This intersects with our PhD research interests, and we'd like to promote Open Guides at the WikiSym conference.
We're posting to ask for your help putting this paper together: would you mind answering some questions about the Open Guide you're involved in (as an admin, a content 'editor', general helper etc)?
Wed like to gather together peoples thoughts and ideas and write them up with some general information about the Open Guides as the paper; we hope that by doing this we can increase awareness of the Open Guides amongst a worldwide academic audience.
We hope this sounds like both a worthwhile and interesting thing to take part in.
If you're interested please could you have a go at answering the questions below and mail your answers back to us.... also feel free to get in contact if you've got any other thoughts or comments.
Cheers! look forward to hearing from you...
Mark and Tom
A. Your Open Guide ------------------
1. How would you describe the Open Guide you work on to somebody who wanted to find out about it?
2. Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your users right now?
3. What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to get philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
4. Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
B. Your role in the Open Guide ------------------------------
1. How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell us what you do?
2. What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it) started? What are the current goals?
3. How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide?
4. Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has 'vandalism' been a problem?)
C. Publicity and outreach -------------------------
1. Do you publicise your Guide? How?
D. Future of the Guide ----------------------
1. How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been met? Which remain elusive?
2. How long do you see the project going on for?
3. If someone told you they were planning to start an Open Guide, what advice would you give them?
thanks for helping us with this. We'll keep you posted as we progress...
please email your answers, thoughts, ideas to
Mark: m.b.gaved@open.ac.uk or Tom: tom.heath@gmail.com
Hi Mark,
[CCing to list for possible discussion generation]
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 05:25:33PM +0100, M.B.Gaved wrote:
A. Your Open Guide
- How would you describe the Open Guide you work on to somebody who wanted to find
out about it?
The Oxford Guide is a city guide to Oxford that anyone can edit and update, which hopefully gives it a more unbiased and refreshing look at Oxford than all the many commercialised guides full of adverts and no opinions. This does make it less complete but if you help contribute you can make it better and more comprehensive!
- Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your users right now?
Ideally all and sundry, from residents of Oxford to visitors at all levels of technical familiarity, but at the moment most of our users I suspect are the more technically oriented. It's difficult to know how much use casual web surfers make of our guide, because although we do have lots of Google juice and are high hits for lots of places in Oxford, we don't get any feedback from most of these users.
- What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to get philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
Partly already answered in question 1 I suppose. The main thing is that an Open Guide is freely editable and reusable which gives people the power to do cool things with the content and reuse it in ways we haven't considered before. The fact that we store structed metadata also has a large role to play in this - people use our RDF feeds as sources for other bits and pieces. This is where OpenGuide wins over generic wikis.
Of course, lots of this isn't just down to the OpenGuides software itself, but the fact that in general permissive Creative Commons licences are used.
Aside from that, the fact that an Open Guide generally has no commercial bias is appealing. It means that it is much more likely that reviews and comments relating to an establishment are unbiased, although you do get the occasional blatant self-promotion with faked-up reviews -- these generally get moved off to one side by regular users/editors along with semi-sarcastic comments to the effect that it's probably self-promotion.
- Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
Yes, we have rules on the scope of the guide to stop it being filled with "off-topic" material that would belong better in a more general resource, and we have guides to formatting names and so on that ensure a consistent feel.
Ultimately though we don't treat them as wholly prescriptive and the emphasis is on contributing content, so we don't mind that much if people get something wrong - the editors and admins of the guide are there to tidy up stylistic points. The same goes for admin - the handful of people who help me deal with page deletions and so on apply their own judgement.
B. Your role in the Open Guide
- How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell us what you do?
I think the Oxford Guide was the first Open Guide to run with real data and started out (for maybe a few hours) just being a pub guide before we realised it should be more generic. At this time Kate Pugh was writing OpenGuides in order to replace the generic Grubstreet wiki for London. For a while I was just a user but I now maintain the software, coordinating releases, doing bug triage, and bits of development with the smallish team of active developers.
- What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it) started? What are the current goals?
Originally we wanted to replicate an old pub guide that had been maintained as static pages on the University's web space and which had disappeared. This collection has now been resurrected indepedently but having this initial collection meant that we had a good way to kick-start the guide into life and provide it with a purpose. Nowadays it is self-sufficient and has grown in to something much bigger than it started out, with with over 700 pages of content. The current goal is to become "comprehensive" in some sense. This may never happen, but it is always something to work towards, and in the meantime, the guide is useful.
- How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide?
I guess when if I leave Oxford I'll play a smaller role but will probably still run it and do some of the admin bits.
- Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has 'vandalism' been a problem?)
It certainly wasn't expected that it would grow as much as it did, so in a sense. Spam has been a major problem in the past 6 months; in particular spammers have been targetting a flaw in the codebase which allows HTML to be embedded in node names. Coupled with auto-creating index nodes, this allows spammers to create large number of nodes linking to spam.
I've solved this crudely with a moderation script, but this is probably the major weakness in OpenGuides at the moment. Ivor has worked on a spam-filtering plugin for CGI::Wiki which we should be able to integrate to alleviate this problem.
C. Publicity and outreach
- Do you publicise your Guide? How?
Not much active publicising at the moment really. I do like to drop in relevant references to the guide whenever I can (eg when I'm recommending a pub in a mailing list post :) and hopefully this increases local mindshare. There has been discussion about getting business cards printing and depositing them in venues, perhaps in a "this venue featured in ..." context, but this hasn't quite happened yet.
D. Future of the Guide
- How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been met? Which remain elusive?
I think the success of the project to date speaks for itself. It's grown slowly but surely and I think it will continue to do so. There are many many improvements to the software that will let it grow further and be more useful.
The goal of engaging with the non-technical user (if it ever existed) is probably some way to being fulfilled; we probably need someone to concentrate on the user interface issues in the software/templates.
- How long do you see the project going on for?
I hope it goes on for a long time. It's three years old now and I don't see it going away any time soon.
- If someone told you they were planning to start an Open Guide, what advice would you give them?
A fair amount of dedication is necessary to kickstart a guide. Be prepared to spend time populating the guide with initial entries, developing the local policies, visual appearance, introductory text, categorisation policies, and licensing; these are all needed to attract the casual contributor to the guide.
Once the guide looks like a guide that can be worked on rather than a blank sheet of paper, encourage your tech-savvie local contacts to contribute. The technical aspects of running the site aren't really the important ones but taking responsibility for the quality of the content is. You need to be a moderator and editor to some extent. Subscribing to the RSS feed in your chosen feed reader is *highly* recommended. Spend a few minutes each day viewing every edit and making sure it's neat and complies with your local policies.
Cheers,
Dominic.
I'm following Dom's lead.
A. Your Open Guide
- How would you describe the Open Guide you work on to somebody who
wanted to find out about it?
Hmm I was at a dinner party and I think I described it like, The Guide is a website about Saint Paul (now the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul really) that anybody can edit. I started it as a way to keep track of things I've found in St. Paul, but now I'm using it to discover things in the Twin Cities.
- Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your
users right now?
Ultimately I'd like to see it as an alternative venue for people who live in the Cities to comment freely about them. I'll explain further below, but I originally planned (and still do plan) on starting an OpenGuide to Orlando to balance the crass consumer guides that exist out there. When I moved to St. Paul I decided to do something similar to track the places I found here.
- What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to get
philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
Well it's different from other wikis in that it's a city guide, and it's different from other city guides in that it's a Wiki! Seriously though, the software is better organized for the purposes of being a City oriented wiki than other platforms, especially with crschmidt's google map hacks. For example anymore I find it faster these days if I know something is in the guide and I need say a phone number or website ... I search the guide first, then fall back to Google (usually to add it to the guide so next time I get it in the first try :D).
Saint Paul is small, and doesn't have a very large user base (yet). It'll gain more purpose as we grow. But the fact that it's relatively easy to edit, amazingly easy to add pages to, and even (mostly) blank pages have some utility (all you need is an address/long+lat and you get a map) I think is thrilling. In the US copyright laws are such that I can add address book type information, and with the geocoder.us website I've quickly populated the guide with lots of (mostly) empty pages. I now use the guide to find new restaurants, or places to visit.
- Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your
admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
I am my admin team. I play it by ear, and try to follow the examples set by the london, oxford and boston guides. I figure people with users must be doing something right.
B. Your role in the Open Guide
- How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell us
what you do?
I listened to Earle give a speech at YAPC::EU 2003 and it played right into plans that my wife and I had had about starting a Guide Book to Orlando when we moved home. Turns out we didn't exactly move home, but I still started a Guide. Mostly for my own benefit.
I run the Twin Cities (St. Paul) guide, and do server maintenance for both saintpaul.openguides.org and victoria.openguides.org, and eventually I'll ressurect orlando.openguides.org.
- What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it)
started? What are the current goals?
My goal was to start something I found useful. My goal now is to create something others find useful and want to contribute to as well.
- How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide?
Well we plan on living in the Twin Cities for another 7 years. I hope by then I can find someone to give regular administration duties over to, and I can start/build/work with the Orlando guide.
- Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has
'vandalism' been a problem?)
Vandalism is my biggest problem. There's only me, and I'm horribly busy, so I'm not as fastidious as some about checking the spam on my Guides. Orlando finally succumbed to a level of spam from which I didn't want to try to revert. Do subscribe to your guide, or at least check the recent changes page regularly (thrice weekly?).
I've had exactly 4 people other than myself that I know of edit the guide. Nobody is using it in a way I haven't expected yet. I'm trying hard to get it to that point. The minute someone says "oh hey did you see|try|do this with the Guide" and they're talking about SaintPaul ... I'll know I've made it.
C. Publicity and outreach
- Do you publicise your Guide? How?
This is probably why I have no users :) I haven't attempted to publicise the guide at all yet. I've mentioned it in passing to a few friends. I've populated it with stuff that 's getting fairly decent hits on Google. I'm gonna try to add a lot of useful content when I can ...
D. Future of the Guide
- How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been
met? Which remain elusive?
Two years ago when I started my guide, I was the first non UK. We've come *along* way since then. We now have three US guides (as of today!), one Canadian Guide, and 13 (!!) UK guides. We've come along way baby.
- How long do you see the project going on for?
As long as people are still interested, I see it lasting for a very long time.
- If someone told you they were planning to start an Open Guide, what
advice would you give them?
Make sure you're willing to commit to it. The more you put into it the more you'll get out of it. Don't do it alone. Find friends, get them to add content. If you're in the US, find a source for raw address data ... and use geocoder.us to convert that to Long+Lat to bootstrap your guide. Then fill in the blank pages. Don't make it stop being fun. Hang out on #openguides on irc.perl.org and mooch off the prodigiousness of others.
-Chris
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, M.B.Gaved wrote:
A. Your Open Guide
- How would you describe the Open Guide you work on to somebody who
wanted to find out about it?
It's a way to find out information on places, shops, pubs etc in the Cotswolds, which you are welcome to contribute to if you find something missing.
- Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your
users right now?
Anticipated - anyone who lives in the cotswolds, or is planning to visit it, who knows something about the web
Current - everyone in the office, and a surprising number of others. I should really set up some stats crunching! There have been ~20k page hits since we started.
- What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to get
philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
It provides un-biased information that people want, rather than whatever people happen to want to pay for. There are a few other guides covering the Cotswolds, but they tend to just focus on a few places, and are aimed at vistors rather than residents.
- Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your
admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
The admin team is mostly myself, with the help of a few other people who I work with. We tend to decide things via offline disucssions, and for now that works. If we do grow, this will need to change!
Rules wise, we have some guides on the site, and we do tweak entries if required.
B. Your role in the Open Guide
- How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell us
what you do?
I used the Oxford guide for a bit (and still do). After chatting with a few people, it was decided that the Oxford guide probably shouldn't be stretched out to cover the Cotswolds, so I set up a new guide to cover it.
Now, I maintain the cotswolds guide, contribute stuff to the oxford one, and also contribute some code.
- What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it)
started? What are the current goals?
To have useful information for myself (and ideally also others) on the areas where I live and work.
My current goals are to grow the coverage, and improvate the code.
- How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide?
Until I stop working in the Cotswolds.
- Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has
'vandalism' been a problem?)
Thankfully, we haven't had any vandalism yet. I don't know of any interesting uses yet, but we do tend to crop up in the first 1-3 google results on places we've reviewed. We've even been known to get that high just with an entry in the "planned reviews" page!
C. Publicity and outreach
- Do you publicise your Guide? How?
We don't really. We've been known to tell people in passing. We're just letting people find it for know
D. Future of the Guide
- How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been
met? Which remain elusive?
It's helped us find nice pubs, but that's about it. We need a bit more content, and then hopefully some more users.
(We're kick-starting the guide by visiting a different pub every fortnight, and then adding an entry for it)
- How long do you see the project going on for?
As long as there is interest
- If someone told you they were planning to start an Open Guide, what
advice would you give them?
Come up with a plan for seeding it with content. Have a plan for how to visit a range of places to write up (a pub lunch club works well). Make sure people who promise you reviews really write them!
Nick
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 05:25:33PM +0100, M.B.Gaved wrote:
Here's my response for the Open Guide to Manchester
A. Your Open Guide
- How would you describe the Open Guide you work on to somebody who
wanted to find out about it?
To quote from http://manchester.openguides.org/ :
This site is part of the OpenGuides network of city guides, and exists to provide a living guide to Manchester, contributed and updated by the people who spend time here. We're independent and non-corporate, and exist to provide a comprehensive guide to the Manchester we know and love.
- Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your
users right now?
I don't really have an anticipated audience. Content goes on the guide, and people access it, currently mostly through Google searches. Occasionally, people contribute to it. I don't really know who these people are other than traces in my Apache weblogs. I'm hoping over time that more people will subscribe to the ogm-discuss mailing list and we can get more of a coherent community going.
- What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to
get philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
When I'm looking up information and find a city guide, I'm often frustrated by the adverts, the poor navigability, and the content. Entries rarely link to each other, and are rarely organised neatly. The content is often out of date or biased, and there's no way to correct it.
I think my Open Guide is easier to navigate, and easier to contribute to. The lack of adverts and clear (if unpolished) design help with this.
- Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your
admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
There aren't many particular rules, other than those governing the licensing of content. Ther's a house style which helps keep things consistent. The only real "admin" work I do is deleting spam.
B. Your role in the Open Guide
- How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell us
what you do?
I was involved with the Open Guide to Oxford through moving in the same social circles as the admins. When I moved to Manchester, I was invited to take over administration of the Open Guide to Manchester by one of the people responsible for its hosting.
As admin, I am responsible for keeping the guide free of spam. As a user, I contribute new content and modify existing and contributed content to keep the guide as smooth and usable as possible.
- What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it)
started? What are the current goals?
My goal was and still is to increase people's awareness of my Guide until it becomes a regular source of information for people. This will be done by promotion, content and grass-roots awareness.
- How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide?
I don't see any finite stopping point. If it were to become too much hassle, it'd presumably be busy enough that I could recruit a replacement or supplemental admin to help me.
- Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has
'vandalism' been a problem?)
I've had content added about things in Manchester of which I was not previously aware, which is good. There has recently been a minor spate of wikispam on many OpenGuides, which is a minor problem.
C. Publicity and outreach
- Do you publicise your Guide? How?
At the moment, I only publicise my guide by linking to it from my blog, and from the Manchester community on LiveJournal in response to questions.
In future (specifically once OpenGuides supports OpenID) I'll promote the Guide more heavily on LiveJournal and other Manchester-related sites and mailing lists. I have a plan to flyer physical locations, particularly those which are already in the Guide.
D. Future of the Guide
- How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been
met? Which remain elusive?
I do not feel that my Guide is very successful yet, measured in terms of traffic received. Once it is getting more hits from users than search engine crawlers, I'll be happy. Once I start getting more regular contributors (particularly those who aren't OpenGuides devs), I'll be very happy.
- How long do you see the project going on for?
As long as the Guide is useful, which is a function of how frequently it's kept up to date. I don't see a finite end point, though I can imagine a situation where it fizzles out due to lack of interest.
- If someone told you they were planning to start an Open Guide, what
advice would you give them?
Try to make your site as usable as possible. Get non-geek friends to proofread the meta pages and see if they can make sense of it. Reasonable layout and photos both make a site more inviting.
Dave
openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
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chris＠prather.org -
Dave Page -
Dominic Hargreaves -
M.B.Gaved -
Nick Burch