I've seen a lot more activity in OpenGuides in the past month than I have in the 6 before that, so I think that maybe we're looking at a good time to take advantage of the energy that people have been putting forth to the guides aspect and turn some of it away from technical matters and to the more social matters that I feel may be blocking some uptake of OpenGuides.
* Lack of stylesheet. Perigrin and I have stolen stylesheets back and forth for a while now, and have something that is a pretty basic, but still useful, stylesheet. Including this stylesheet, with some recommendations as to how to change it, would be easy and would make a huge difference to the first result you get when setting up a guide.
* Ardurous Installation I personally find setting up a guide to be a non-trivial task. I'm getting used to it now - with Milton Keynes, it only took about 20 minutes total to get everything up and running - but the biggest reason for that is that the OG packages are already installed for Boston.
Many users don't have the ability to install systemwide perl modules, and users like me who don't know perl don't know how to set up the guide to point to a local directory. I think that a self-contained package for OG including all the perl modules which the app needs, and a preset use lib() pointing to a relative directory, would be the most useful thing that OG could do to ease installation.
I suppose this might get relatively ridiculous: You can require that easy to install or commonly installed packages are already taken care of, but documenting these dependancies could go a long way towards at least letting people know if they could install OG.
I don't know if this is realistic or not, but I know that I do not find installing OpenGuides to be easy, nor is maintaining two seperate copies of the libraries (for Boston and Milton Keynes: I have a number of boston specific changes) to be something that I know how to do.
If there is a way to make it such that OG can be installed by anyone with FTP and MySQL access, without any need for a shell account or CPAN, given a list of perl modules that they already have, and that seperate instances can be maintained for multiple guides, I think that it would be more commonly installed by guide admins and more commonly tested as well. If you can provide a nightly build that someone can just upload with a hand edited wiki.conf, you'll probably see more people able to test the changes without risking breaking their current guide.
* Reaching out Globally Right now, OpenGuides feels very much like a UK-centric project. Dom is doing work to correct this, learning about projections and so on. I think that once we have cleaned up some of the Euro-centric aspects of openguides (and made clear some of the Geo aspects that are confusing at the moment), a good goal would be to reach out to other global users and try and find guide admins. With an easier setup process or the offer to host a guide for them, a number of users may be willing to support a wiki-guide to their city, especially in the absense of other similar services in the area. It would be interesting to see, for example, the Open Guide to Sydney - perhaps even hosting it with a current OGDev member as admin, and then trying to pimp it to sydney locals, thus skipping the setup step.
* Whizbang features I think that some features could be shortlisted for adding to the whizbang effect of OpenGuides: * Google Maps support * New Data Format support - I'm thinking something along the lines of providing JSON data interface as well as RDF, to possibly improve the integration with other web or non-web applications. (I've already implemented a JSON export of Boston, via http://boston.openguides.org/?id=Central_Square_Station;action=edit;format=j... , which I'm using to write a Python commandline client.) I don't know what else is considered Whizbang, but I think those could be neat to take advantage of some of the "OMG AJAX" movement going on in the web world today.
Just some ideas that I had as I was chatting with Dom on IRC, and thought I'd toss them out before I lost them again.
On 1/12/2005, "(Christopher Schmidt)" crschmidt@crschmidt.net wrote:
- Ardurous Installation I personally find setting up a guide to be a non-trivial task. I'm getting used to it now - with Milton Keynes, it only took about 20 minutes total to get everything up and running - but the biggest reason for that is that the OG packages are already installed for Boston.
To be honest, I'm not sure whether spending time on this is such a good idea. The Debian packages make it absolutely trivial to install. Yes, that excludes people who don't have root, but in this era of UML, is that really such an issue?
Maybe we could work with one of the UML providers to supply an Openguide-ready UML image?
I suppose this might get relatively ridiculous: You can require that easy to install or commonly installed packages are already taken care of, but documenting these dependancies could go a long way towards at least letting people know if they could install OG.
That could probably be scripted so you run a script and it tells you what you need to install.
If there is a way to make it such that OG can be installed by anyone with FTP and MySQL access
Surely if you want to make it as easy as possible, SQLite would be a better option?
It would be interesting to see, for example, the Open Guide to Sydney - perhaps even hosting it with a current OGDev member as admin, and then trying to pimp it to sydney locals, thus skipping the setup step.
When I move back to Sydney next year, I will start a Sydney OG. That will be later in the year though.
* Google Maps support
Abso-farkin-lutely!
PS: Have a look at this amazing gazetteer stuff the mysociety.org guys are working on: http://www.mysociety.org/?p=83 http://www.mysociety.org/?p=96
To be honest, I'm not sure whether spending time on this is such a good idea. The Debian packages make it absolutely trivial to install. Yes, that excludes people who don't have root, but in this era of UML, is that really such an issue?
Not everyone uses Debian, or even Linux.
* Google Maps support
We might even qualify as Web 2.0 with that :)
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Christopher Schmidt wrote:
I don't know if this is realistic or not, but I know that I do not find installing OpenGuides to be easy, nor is maintaining two seperate copies of the libraries (for Boston and Milton Keynes: I have a number of boston specific changes) to be something that I know how to do.
one thing which isnt helping is the test failures caused by the update to text::wikiformat this puts peopel off slightly. Also i suspect since openguides is the major user of CGI:Wiki people taking over developemnt of that from kake would help a lot. that from kake would help. The other i noticed is that the prereqs need to be installed before openguides otherwise its get upset. I belive this is handled by the dom's debian packages but fails miserably if done through cpan. Also it migth be worht looking at doing binary packages for other platfroms. rpm at least. althogh i should probably look at solaris packages.
On 2/12/2005, "Chris Nicolson" chris@c-nic.org wrote:
Not everyone uses Debian, or even Linux.
Sure, but my point here is that I'm not convinced it's worth the time spent making it super-easy to install when there is already a way to do that. UML machines are really cheap, so running one dedicated to an openguide is quite a viable option.
RPM would probably open things up to a wider group, and it might be worth trying to do it through Alien.
On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 at 02:11:31PM -0500, Christopher Schmidt wrote:
"OMG AJAX"
Talking of which,
http://downlode.org/code/perl/openguides-hacking/node_selector.html
The backend does some direct SQL querying.
I see this as potentially useful as a check before making a new page, and also when selecting locales and categories.
If there's any way we can do this that doesn't involve having to include the whole script.aculo.us library (translucency effects? Oh, please, no.) I'd be very interested to hear about it.
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