As promised in my other mail, here are some suggestions for improving the user-friendliness of the Oxford Guide. They're not in any particular order. I do have some other ideas stemming from a very useful conversation with Janet, but they are a bit more complicated and I haven't finished thinking them through (perhaps we could discuss them in March).
- Make "The Oxford Guide" in the banner be a link to the home page. This is how people expect websites to work these days and it keeps tripping me up.
- Remove the recent changes display from the front page. It's always full of spam. (Alternatively, but harder, patch OpenGuides so unmoderated changes don't show up in this list.)
- Switch from this style of locale/category page: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=1 to this: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=2 This would involve (a) editing existing pages, and (b) creating a custom_autocreate_content.tt template something like this: http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/custom-templates...
- Once the above has been done, switch the front page links to point to the category/locale pages proper, e.g. http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Locale_Central instead of http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?action=index;index_type=locale;index_valu...
- Switch to the most recent version of the Google Maps API. Version 3 of the API is much smoother and also optimised for mobile browsing. This could be done either with an external script - see for example http://london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/locate.cgi?loc=SE1;map=1 - or by patching OpenGuides. Here is the code we use on RGL: http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/locate.c... http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/lib/RGL/...
- Edit the stylesheet so node images float to the right; compare http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=3 with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=4
- Add more categories to the sidebar (see the Cambridge Guide link for an example).
(BTW, please don't just respond with "JFDI". It really is a very disheartening thing to hear. For most of these things, if I had the time and brain space to do them then I would already have done them. However, I would be extremely happy to advise and assist anyone who is keen to take charge of rolling the scripts I've written for RGL into OpenGuides core.)
Kake
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On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 07:51:57PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
As promised in my other mail, here are some suggestions for improving the user-friendliness of the Oxford Guide. They're not in any particular order. I do have some other ideas stemming from a very useful conversation with Janet, but they are a bit more complicated and I haven't finished thinking them through (perhaps we could discuss them in March).
- Make "The Oxford Guide" in the banner be a link to the home page. This is how people expect websites to work these days and it keeps tripping me up.
Easy: done!
http://dev.openguides.org/changeset/1297
- Remove the recent changes display from the front page. It's always full of spam.
Easy: done!
(Alternatively, but harder, patch OpenGuides so unmoderated changes don't show up in this list.)
- Switch from this style of locale/category page: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=1 to this: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=2 This would involve (a) editing existing pages,
Ticket created: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/279
and (b) creating a custom_autocreate_content.tt template something like this: http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/custom-templates...
Done.
- Once the above has been done, switch the front page links to point to the category/locale pages proper, e.g. http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Locale_Central instead of http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?action=index;index_type=locale;index_valu...
*nod*
- Switch to the most recent version of the Google Maps API. Version 3 of the API is much smoother and also optimised for mobile browsing. This could be done either with an external script - see for example http://london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/locate.cgi?loc=SE1;map=1
http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/locate.c... http://svn.randomness.org.uk/trunk/london.randomness.org.uk/scripts/lib/RGL/...
- or by patching OpenGuides. Here is the code we use on RGL:
Hmm, I'd prefer to see core OpenGuides updated for this. When you say smoother, do you mean the coding process or the user experience?
It seems like only yesterday we upgraded to v2...
Ticket created, anyway: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/278
- Edit the stylesheet so node images float to the right; compare http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=3 with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=4
Done.
- Add more categories to the sidebar (see the Cambridge Guide link for an example).
Oh, good idea.
Added ticket: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/280
I'm sorry I won't be able to do much more on this at the moment; OpenGuides has fallen way down my list of priorities, unfortunately.
Dominic.
(Another request - could this mailing list be set to reply-to-list? Sorry for the duplicate reply, Dom.)
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 07:51:57PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
- Remove the recent changes display from the front page. It's always full of spam.
On Thu 02 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Easy: done!
Thank you! Might be worth including the navbar on the front page now, instead?
- Switch from this style of locale/category page: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=1 to this: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=2 This would involve (a) editing existing pages,
Ticket created: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/279
I'm happy to do these bit by bit as and when I get a free moment - is that how you're envisaging it happening, or would you like me to look into writing a bot to do it?
- Switch to the most recent version of the Google Maps API. Version 3 of the API is much smoother and also optimised for mobile browsing.
Hmm, I'd prefer to see core OpenGuides updated for this.
Me too! I seem to remember that what's stopped us upgrading in the past is that URLs would have to change (the zoom levels used to go in the other direction) and people didn't want that to happen. This is
why I wrote the RGL addon, because I wanted to go to v2 of the API (and later I changed it to use v3).
When you say smoother, do you mean the coding process or the user experience?
I was thinking of the user experience, but actually I think the coding process is simpler too.
It seems like only yesterday we upgraded to v2...
OpenGuides is still really on v1, isn't it? It loads the v2 JavaScript, but then uses the GMap object rather than GMap2. Judging by Trac: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/93
we did this in order to have a smaller JavaScript download, but without changing the actual JavaScript calls.
- Add more categories to the sidebar (see the Cambridge Guide link for an example).
Oh, good idea.
Added ticket: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/280
Does this need a lot of discussion, or can I just suggest some and see what people think?
I'm sorry I won't be able to do much more on this at the moment; OpenGuides has fallen way down my list of priorities, unfortunately.
It's fine - thank you very much for what you've done already!
Kake
On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 04:30:38PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
(Another request - could this mailing list be set to reply-to-list? Sorry for the duplicate reply, Dom.)
I'm going to leave the list as it is, I think, because I've seen so many strong opinions on both sides of that particular debate that changing it probably isn't going to gain much (and I've seen plenty of mistakes, both replies off-list that should have been on-list and the more embarrassing converse).
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 07:51:57PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
- Remove the recent changes display from the front page. It's always full of spam.
On Thu 02 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Easy: done!
Thank you! Might be worth including the navbar on the front page now, instead?
Good point, done.
- Switch from this style of locale/category page: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=1 to this: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Locale_Central&version=2 This would involve (a) editing existing pages,
Ticket created: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/279
I'm happy to do these bit by bit as and when I get a free moment - is that how you're envisaging it happening, or would you like me to look into writing a bot to do it?
I would not object to either approach :)
- Switch to the most recent version of the Google Maps API. Version 3 of the API is much smoother and also optimised for mobile browsing.
Hmm, I'd prefer to see core OpenGuides updated for this.
Me too! I seem to remember that what's stopped us upgrading in the past is that URLs would have to change (the zoom levels used to go in the other direction) and people didn't want that to happen. This is
why I wrote the RGL addon, because I wanted to go to v2 of the API (and later I changed it to use v3).
Thanks, that's a useful explanation.
When you say smoother, do you mean the coding process or the user experience?
I was thinking of the user experience, but actually I think the coding process is simpler too.
It seems like only yesterday we upgraded to v2...
OpenGuides is still really on v1, isn't it? It loads the v2 JavaScript, but then uses the GMap object rather than GMap2. Judging by Trac: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/93
we did this in order to have a smaller JavaScript download, but without changing the actual JavaScript calls.
Ah, right.
- Add more categories to the sidebar (see the Cambridge Guide link for an example).
Oh, good idea.
Added ticket: http://dev.openguides.org/ticket/280
Does this need a lot of discussion, or can I just suggest some and see what people think?
It's... a wiki. Suggesting some will be fine :)
On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 04:30:38PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
I'm happy to do these bit by bit as and when I get a free moment - is that how you're envisaging it happening, or would you like me to look into writing a bot to do it?
On Mon 06 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
I would not object to either approach :)
OK, I took a combined approach and have now done this. I tried to switch the front page links too, but my edit got caught in the spamtrap for some reason.
Kake
On Mon 20 Feb 2012, Kake L Pugh kake@earth.li wrote:
OK, I took a combined approach and have now done this. I tried to switch the front page links too, but my edit got caught in the spamtrap for some reason.
Forgot to mention, while I was doing this, I came across the following categories and locales that probably don't need to exist:
Category CBBmGG <a Href= Category Of0o8Y <a Href= Category OnbSbO <a Href= Category Rdqkf0 <a Href= Category UG7vpo <a Href= Category VL017g <a Href= Category ZVFvQu <a Href=
Locale A5QNTf <a Href= Locale CBBmGG <a Href= Locale Bonn Square Locale Carfax Locale Castle Locale Cowley_Road Locale Eyston Way Locale Iffley Isis Locale Of0o8Y <a Href= Locale OnbSbO <a Href= Locale Rdqkf0 <a Href= Locale UG7vpo <a Href= Locale VL017g <a Href= Locale ZVFvQu <a Href=
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 07:51:57PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
- Edit the stylesheet so node images float to the right; compare http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=3 with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=4
On Thu 02 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Done.
Just spotted an issue with this - on pages with geodata (and hence a map), the node image is squashed in between the map and the address/phone/postcode, rather than sitting neatly below it, e.g. compare: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Oriental_Condor with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?Punter
Kake
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 05:45:45PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 07:51:57PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
- Edit the stylesheet so node images float to the right; compare http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=3 with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?id=Category_Chinese_Food&version=4
On Thu 02 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Done.
Just spotted an issue with this - on pages with geodata (and hence a map), the node image is squashed in between the map and the address/phone/postcode, rather than sitting neatly below it, e.g. compare: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Oriental_Condor with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?Punter
This is still an issue and I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. Is anyone with more CSS-fu then me able to look at this?
Cheers, Dominic.
On Sun 17 Jun 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 05:45:45PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
Just spotted an issue with this - on pages with geodata (and hence a map), the node image is squashed in between the map and the address/phone/postcode, rather than sitting neatly below it, e.g. compare: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Oriental_Condor with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?Punter
This is still an issue and I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. Is anyone with more CSS-fu then me able to look at this?
In the Cambridge example the map and photo are actually both in the same <div>. This would make it a lot easier to style them neatly like that -- may be possible to fudge it in the Oxford pages despite them being in separate <div>s, but I fear I don't have enough CSS-fu to do so. How easy is it to alter the node template?
I did manage to fix it so that the photo appeared to the left of the other metadata (which IMO looks slightly neater than having it clashing with the map) by adding this to the end of the stylesheet:
#metadata { margin-bottom: 80px; }
div#node_image_box { float: left; margin-right: 30px; }
Haven't tested this widely though!
Jx
On Mon 18 Jun 2012, Janet McKnight janetmck@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
In the Cambridge example the map and photo are actually both in the same <div>. This would make it a lot easier to style them neatly like that -- may be possible to fudge it in the Oxford pages despite them being in separate <div>s, but I fear I don't have enough CSS-fu to do so. How easy is it to alter the node template?
V quick reply as in a rush, but I think the Oxford templates are actually quite out of date with OpenGuides svn - it looks to me as though the changes made in changeset 1237: http://dev.openguides.org/changeset/1237
haven't been applied on Oxford, so this may be part of the problem.
Actually I am tempted to put the Cambridge template changes (i.e. the addition of a "map_and_photo" div) in OpenGuides svn - this would be a very simple two-line change which would make styling easier for me on the forthcoming Croydon guide too.
Kake
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:27:00AM +0100, Janet McKnight wrote:
On Sun 17 Jun 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 05:45:45PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
Just spotted an issue with this - on pages with geodata (and hence a map), the node image is squashed in between the map and the address/phone/postcode, rather than sitting neatly below it, e.g. compare: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?Oriental_Condor with http://cambridge.openguides.org/wiki/?Punter
This is still an issue and I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. Is anyone with more CSS-fu then me able to look at this?
In the Cambridge example the map and photo are actually both in the same <div>. This would make it a lot easier to style them neatly like that -- may be possible to fudge it in the Oxford pages despite them being in separate <div>s, but I fear I don't have enough CSS-fu to do so. How easy is it to alter the node template?
I did manage to fix it so that the photo appeared to the left of the other metadata (which IMO looks slightly neater than having it clashing with the map) by adding this to the end of the stylesheet:
#metadata { margin-bottom: 80px; }
div#node_image_box { float: left; margin-right: 30px; }
Haven't tested this widely though!
Thanks, I've stuck it in for now!
Dominic.
Sorry for the multiple emails today! Though this one is back on the original subject of user-friendliness improvements in general.
Another suggestion: get rid of the IP address display on Recent Changes, or at least only display them if they're IPv4 addresses. A page full of "Kake (2001:8b0:ca94:869f:226:8ff:fef9:453d)" just distracts from the actual information. On RGL we've removed the IP address display altogether.
Incidentally, is there anyone reading this list other than me and Dom?
Kake
On Mon 20 Feb 2012, Kake L Pugh kake@earth.li wrote:
Incidentally, is there anyone reading this list other than me and Dom?
Hello! I am reading this list (when I get a chance). Thank you for making all these changes to increase the user-friendliness of the Oxford OpenGuide!
Now back to lurking (and/or trying to stop baby eating the furniture) -- I am hoping to get more actively involved in the Oxford OpenGuide when I have slightly more free time & free hands... :-)
J.
On Tue 21 Feb 2012, Janet McKnight janetmck@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote:
Hello! I am reading this list (when I get a chance). Thank you for making all these changes to increase the user-friendliness of the Oxford OpenGuide!
Well, thank you for inspiring me! I'm currently going through and trying to make sure everything has geodata, which will make it easier for us to check things out when I'm in Oxford in March.
Speaking of which, it would be _really_ handy to be able to look at Oxford Guide maps on my phone while I'm there. This isn't particularly great with the maps as they are (see previous discussion re Google Maps API versions) - it's very hard to target the pointers, and the controls to switch to OSM/satellite simply don't work at all.
Would it be possible to install RGL's "locate.cgi" script for the Oxford Guide, even if only temporarily? "no-image.cgi" would be handy too (and is already installed on the Cambridge Guide).
Kake
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 06:17:49PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
Well, thank you for inspiring me! I'm currently going through and trying to make sure everything has geodata, which will make it easier for us to check things out when I'm in Oxford in March.
Speaking of which, it would be _really_ handy to be able to look at Oxford Guide maps on my phone while I'm there. This isn't particularly great with the maps as they are (see previous discussion re Google Maps API versions) - it's very hard to target the pointers, and the controls to switch to OSM/satellite simply don't work at all.
Would it be possible to install RGL's "locate.cgi" script for the Oxford Guide, even if only temporarily? "no-image.cgi" would be handy too (and is already installed on the Cambridge Guide).
Sorry that I wasn't able to do this in time - I have quite an aversion to adhoc scripts and didn't have time to review this.
Based on our discussions in Oxford I think we have a plan to go ahead with a GMaps 3 update in any case.
Cheers, Dominic.
On Sat 10 Mar 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Based on our discussions in Oxford I think we have a plan to go ahead with a GMaps 3 update in any case.
Yep, though having talked briefly to Duncan Parkes a couple of days later, I think Leaflet may be less hassle to get up and running than I'd expected - he said that from the point he started looking at the documentation, it only took him about 10 minutes to get something working! So I'm going to look at that properly (at some point within the next week) before I make the final decision.
I've cced this to openguides-dev as it's relevant to other guides too.
Kake
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 08:22:44PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
Another suggestion: get rid of the IP address display on Recent Changes, or at least only display them if they're IPv4 addresses. A page full of "Kake (2001:8b0:ca94:869f:226:8ff:fef9:453d)" just distracts from the actual information.
I don't think we should remove them altogether just because they are IP addresses (nor remove the IPv4 ones too) but we could improve the display by only showing the first part of the address, with a title attribute with the full one, eg:
<span title="2001:8b0:ca94:869f:226:8ff:fef9:453d">2001:8b0:ca94...</span>
Dominic.
On Sat 25 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
I don't think we should remove them altogether just because they are IP addresses (nor remove the IPv4 ones too) but we could improve the display by only showing the first part of the address, with a title attribute with the full one, eg:
<span title="2001:8b0:ca94:869f:226:8ff:fef9:453d">2001:8b0:ca94...</span>
That would be better than the current situation, yes. In addition to that, how about only showing the IP address if the user has asked to be shown admin links?
Kake
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 03:23:49PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
On Sat 25 Feb 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
I don't think we should remove them altogether just because they are IP addresses (nor remove the IPv4 ones too) but we could improve the display by only showing the first part of the address, with a title attribute with the full one, eg:
<span title="2001:8b0:ca94:869f:226:8ff:fef9:453d">2001:8b0:ca94...</span>
That would be better than the current situation, yes. In addition to that, how about only showing the IP address if the user has asked to be shown admin links?
Hmm, I'm not sure why this has sat around in my inbox for so long. This is fine with me :)
Cheers, Dominic.
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 03:23:49PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
That would be better than the current situation, yes. In addition to that, how about only showing the IP address if the user has asked to be shown admin links?
On Thu 19 Apr 2012, Dominic Hargreaves dom@earth.li wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure why this has sat around in my inbox for so long. This is fine with me :)
Thanks! And after 5 days of hacking at it, I have finally managed to implement this in svn. (The reason it took so long is that there was a very subtle cookie bug, which I have now fixed.)
Kake
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