Hi!
I'm planning on starting a openguide for the Buenos Aires city (Argentina).
I already have a draft (http://guiaba.mine.nu/cgi-bin/openguides/og), but I
have some doubts and I want to share them with you:
I'm concerned about language. I hope the guide to be used for locals and
visitors, but specially for locals. So, english doesn't seem to be a good
option. But: all the other pages in openguides are in english, including
Oslo's; and the software doesn't seem to suppor multi-language.
I'm not really convinced on using openguides as a platform, since the only
features I see which gave me some advantage over other wiki engines are
categories and locales (which can be implemented with some hack), and they
aren't trated in a special way, it is the same if I put a link at the
bottom of the page
The rest of metadata doesn't seem to be used except to be shown in the same
page (the coordinates system can't be used, since i'm outside the uk).
Another important fact is that it is too slow withour mod_perl.. is there
any provision for running under it?
I don't want to be a flamer, just those are questions that arose when
starting this project (which I had in mind before knowing openguides), and
may be someone can help me....
Hi,
The Oxford guide is having problems with some clients mangling the é (in
this particular case) in Category links:
<http://www.ox.compsoc.net/oxfordguide/>
This is a particular problem because of course a GET request on
Categories will auto-create the category. The culprit appears, in the
most recent case, to be this:
msnbot64124.search.msn.com - - [24/May/2004:10:00:57 +0100] "GET /oxfordguide/?id=Category%20Caf%C3%83%C6%92%C3%86%E2%80%99f%C3%83%C6%92%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C5%A1%C3%83%E2%80%9A%C3%82%C2%A9s;format=rdf HTTP/1.0" 200 1506 "-" "msnbot/0.11 (+http://search.msn.com/msnbot.htm)"
I haven't looked closely into which of the bot and us are at fault yet,
but has anyone else seen this problem? This needs fixing in two ways:
- the site should not create categories on the basis of a GET request
(RFC 2616 sec 9.1.1), therefore categories need to be created at the
time that they are entered into a node, rather than on first access.
- it would be nice to locate the source of this charset confusion, but
if the above is fixed this is a secondary consideration (it may turn
out that the problem is entirely brokenness on the client side in
which case it can be safely ignored)
Cheers,
Dominic.
Hi there,
I notice from the dev CVS that 0.31 has a considerable number of changes.
Any chance it can be released?
I would like a nice clean baseline for the geographical changes (UTM) I am making.
Also, I thought that the code had been changed to use CGI::Wiki::Plugin::Diff
rather than OpenGuides::Diff. I will make this change as well.
Ivor.
I am extremely pleased to see that an existing application for "Open Guides"
as a UK trademark (that I've been keeping an eye on for the last year or so)
has now kicked the bucket:
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2199431
Anybody fancy chipping in towards the 200 quid needed to register us a
trademark? I'm sure we could raise it between everybody on this list (that
is, if y'all think it's worthwhile - I do).
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.orghttp://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
On 26 May 2004 21:48 Earle Martin wrote:
> I am extremely pleased to see that an existing application
> for "Open Guides"
> as a UK trademark (that I've been keeping an eye on for the
> last year or so)
> has now kicked the bucket:
>
> http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trade
> mark=2199431
>
> Anybody fancy chipping in towards the 200 quid needed to register us a
> trademark? I'm sure we could raise it between everybody on
> this list (that
> is, if y'all think it's worthwhile - I do).
Would it be worth approaching The Perl Foundation to do this, or obtain a grant to be able to do it?
Barbie.
i had a brief fascinating chat with the author of PeriPeri, a testingground rdf-backed miniwiki, earlier this evening and ran across this entertaining and possibly pertinent page on faceted classification / unplugging hierarchies etc. maybe old news?
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?FacetWiki
FWIW re Habituation, i have found distinct fields and purposes for Category and Locale to be invaluable, but the category foo / category foo index distinction to be a bit painful and disjointy to unaccustomed users...
zx
> -----Original Message-----
> From: openguides-london-bounces(a)openguides.org
> [mailto:openguides-london-bounces@openguides.org]On Behalf Of Earle
> Martin
> Sent: 17 May 2004 00:00
> To: openguides-dev(a)openguides.org
> Cc: openguides-london(a)openguides.org
> Subject: [OpenGuides-London] Habituation is bad.
>
> ...
> How to remedy this situation, as far as I can see:
>
> 1) Warn the users.
> 2) Change the code so that nodes no longer have "Category" or "Locale"
> prepended to their names.
> 3) Find all the pages that fit the pattern of "Fred" and
> "Category Fred"
> and merge the latter into the former - automatically for
> cases where the
> former contains only a redirect, and manually for
> everything else (not
> many cases, hopefully).
> 4) Munge all links pointing to "Category X"/"Locale Y".
> 5) Erm, that's it? Did I miss anything?
I am in favour in principle of what you are suggesting. However, we need to
be very careful. Consider an extreme case. Suppose we have a contributor called
Victoria, working on the guide. Does she have to share her home node with the
description of the place of the same name? Other related entries are distinguished
in the node title: Queen_Victoria, Victoria_Station, (category) Victorian.
I think we need a metadata field called node type. This can take the following values
for starters:
- Person
- Category
- Place
- Locale
Note: a place has a pinpoint location, whereas a locale has an area.
If we put this in place, we could have different templates for each node type.
Also, we could distinguish between Victoria(Place) and Victoria(Person).
My £0.02
Ivor.
I couldn't sleep just now, and a realisation came to me.
When you see a thing enough times, it tends to fade into the mental
background, until you forget why it was there in the first place. This has
happened to us, and I'll tell you where: categories and locales. Allow me to
explain.
Way back when we were using UseModWiki to run "grubstreet", we came up with
the idea of categories and locales. Certain nodes had a magic quality - at
least, we agreed they did, although the software didn't know any better - of
"containing" other nodes. At the time, no functionality was available to us
to record metadata, so things were done by naming nodes "Category This" or
"Locale There".
However, the creation of the OpenGuides software changed the situation. Now
we can to designate what categories nodes are in properly, and mark some
nodes as being nodes themselves by being in "Category Category". The
analogous situation exists for locales. So why are we still naming pages
"Category Whatever" and "Locale Something"?
Prepending these definitions to node names is ugly, in a Pompidou Centre
pipes-on-the-outside kind of way, confusing for new users ("Locale Wherever"
was always an awkward construction), redundant in light of proper metadata
(incidentally, "Category Category" should just be "Categories") and, most
tellingly, causes a variety of ontological problems such as nodes called
"Fred" that have to be redirected to "Category Fred", separate nodes for a
place and the _locale_ of a place, and so on, examples of which crop up on
RecentChanges all the time. This is clearly what the XP people call a "code
smell"[0].
How to remedy this situation, as far as I can see:
1) Warn the users.
2) Change the code so that nodes no longer have "Category" or "Locale"
prepended to their names.
3) Find all the pages that fit the pattern of "Fred" and "Category Fred"
and merge the latter into the former - automatically for cases where the
former contains only a redirect, and manually for everything else (not
many cases, hopefully).
4) Munge all links pointing to "Category X"/"Locale Y".
5) Erm, that's it? Did I miss anything?
Comments, please. I'd like to mark this as priority for OpenGuides 0.32;
Kake, if you haven't got time at the moment I can look into it. Would it
require any changes to CGI::Wiki?
Ta,
Earle.
[0] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CodeSmell
--
Earle Martin
hex on irc.perl.orghttp://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/
I will be giving a talk on geographical modules at London.pm
which should be of interest to OpenGuides people.
I will make the slides available after the talk.
Ivor.
-----Original Message-----
From: london.pm-admin(a)london.pm.org
[mailto:london.pm-admin@london.pm.org]On Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: 13 May 2004 18:03
To: london.pm-announce(a)london.pm.org
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] London.pm Tech Meet 27th May 2004 @ The Angel @ Old
Street
London Perl Mongers will be having a technical meeting on Thursday 27th
May at The Angel Pub near Old Street roundabout (that's two weeks today if
you're reading this on the day I sent it.) The meeting will start at 7pm,
with the talks starting at 7.15pm sharp. We'll be in the upstairs room,
which has been hired by Fotango, who are also kindly providing a small
buffet for us to eat while people talk.
http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/angel_pub.htmlhttp://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=532783&Y=182390&A=Y&Z=1
Nicholas Clark, the perl 5.8.0 pumpking and leading ponie developer will
be giving us a quick summary of some of the development that's going on
with the perl core and ponie (Perl On New Internal Engine.)
Many people will be presenting talks that they're hoping to give at
upcoming conferences. Ivor Williams will be giving us a preview of the
Geographical modules talk he hopes to present at YAPC::Europe, and Mark
Fowler will be doing likewise for his talk on turning Perl Modules into
CPAN Bundlers that he'll be giving at YAPC::NA this year. James Duncan
will be giving a twenty minute version of the talk on Enterprise Perl he's
presenting at YAPC::NA and OSCON.
Finally we're lucky to have Chia-liang Kao, the developer of the Perl
based revision control system SVK in town. He'll be giving us a brief
introduction to the current status of the project and what SVK can do for
us.
I hope to see you there.
Mark.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -T
use strict;
use warnings;
print q{Mark Fowler, mark(a)twoshortplanks.com, http://twoshortplanks.com/};