-- Original Message -- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:16:49 +0100 From: maximilian attems maks@sternwelten.at To: OpenGuides software developers openguides-dev@openguides.org Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] encoding troubles Reply-To: xlai-feat@xemaps.com
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, IvorW wrote:
I wonder whether this might be the time to revisit node_name_to_node_param and provide something more flexible. I have in mind something inwardly pluggable that supplies a normalisation function for node names.
what do you mean by "normalisation",
What I have in mind is a many to one mapping (or rather a several to one mapping).
http://mywiki/?caf%C3%A9 and http://mywiki/?cafe should both reach the same page. Also, a link to [[café]] should work, as should a link to [[cafe]]. These indicate that there is a single wiki page for café, and that the various ways of expressing it are translated into a "normal form" (in computer science speak).
People would be encouraged to use the accented form in page links.
it would be cool to support the "äöü" and others?
I agree :)
Currently, n_n_t_n_p reduces multiple whitespace to a single space, replaces spaces with underscores and adds Title Case. There is no reason why this
could not apply de-accenting of letters or turning umlauts into diphthongs. I think that there is a strong case for this being a plugin.
please explain diphthongs.
Example: the word für can also be written fuer. Schön can be written schoen. I don't know what the German word for a diphthong is, but it means putting two vowels together.
Also, ß can be replaced with ss.
i'm not a native speaker and dict doesn't know it either. why de-accenting letters? "café" should well be permitted as category.
café will still work (see above).
This would be an option for someone setting up a guide, whether the title munging rules included such normalisations.
If there were no normalisations, [[café]] and [[cafe]] point to two different pages.
The #REDIRECT mechanism is probably sufficient if there were just a few mappings needed (as is the case with an English language guide: it would be nice for [[café]] to work).
Also, this could provide a solution to some of the King's_cross_st_pancras problem (I originally raised this as an issue with search, but it could equally be thought of as a node name munging issue). see http://openguides.org/mail/openguides-dev/2003-October/000091.html
as i'm not familiar with the openguides code, i may have misunderstood your statements.
i hope you'll find a solution for this encoding problem. :)
Hopefully my explanations are making more sense to you now.
Ivor.
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Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
Hi!
On Thu, Jan 27, 2005 at 07:27:21PM +0000, IvorW wrote:
could not apply de-accenting of letters or turning umlauts into diphthongs. I think that there is a strong case for this being a plugin.
please explain diphthongs.
Example: the word f?r can also be written fuer. Sch?n can be written schoen. I don't know what the German word for a diphthong is, but it means putting two vowels together.
Diphthong is a german word (too), but AFAIK it only means two regular vowels put together to form a new sound ('a' and 'u' -> 'au'; 'ei', etc)
Encoding Umlaute (or umlauts) by using two vowels IMO doesn't make those two vowels a diphthong, but I might be wrong (IANALinguist)
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, IvorW wrote: <snipp>
What I have in mind is a many to one mapping (or rather a several to one mapping).
http://mywiki/?caf%C3%A9 and http://mywiki/?cafe should both reach the same page. Also, a link to [[café]] should work, as should a link to [[cafe]]. These indicate that there is a single wiki page for café, and that the various ways of expressing it are translated into a "normal form" (in computer science speak).
that sounds very nice!
i have another many to one mapping in mind (taking local vienna example): Locales can be Described as "2. Bezirk" or as "Leopoldstadt". would be cool to have that be the same page. for shure that has nothing to do with the encoding problem, but was already discussed for future Vienna.openguides as cool feature.
People would be encouraged to use the accented form in page links.
thanks a lot for your explanation. i heavily agree that your proposition gains much better usability for the average user.
i do wonder why oslo didn't run in any encoding problem, must check their openguides out.
a++ maks
-- Original Message -- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:54:14 +0100 From: maximilian attems maks@sternwelten.at To: OpenGuides software developers openguides-dev@openguides.org Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] encoding troubles Reply-To: xlai-feat@xemaps.com
i have another many to one mapping in mind (taking local vienna example): Locales can be Described as "2. Bezirk" or as "Leopoldstadt". would be cool to have that be the same page. for shure that has nothing to do with the encoding problem, but was already discussed for future Vienna.openguides as cool feature.
In this case, you could handle this with a redirect.
Create a page "2. Bezirk" which contains the single line
#REDIRECT [[Leopoldstadt]]
Or do it the other way round.
It depends if the two are completely synonymous.
On the London OpenGuide, we have found that there is not a strict correspondence between ways of classifying locations: borough boundaries, postal districts, etc. So, we came up with the concept of locales - supply a place name and allow the emergence of wiki editing to arrive at a sensible definition of a place (locale).
Thus, we have Locale Camden, NW1 and the London Borough or Camden, which are three overlapping areas.
___________________________________________________________
Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, IvorW wrote:
In this case, you could handle this with a redirect.
Create a page "2. Bezirk" which contains the single line
#REDIRECT [[Leopoldstadt]]
sounds reasonable, thanks for pointing to that feature.
On the London OpenGuide, we have found that there is not a strict correspondence between ways of classifying locations: borough boundaries, postal districts, etc. So, we came up with the concept of locales - supply a place name and allow the emergence of wiki editing to arrive at a sensible definition of a place (locale).
while playing around that weekend at vienna.openguide, i didn't find a listing of the stub pages, the autocreated category or locales ones, they don't enter the wanted pages, (perhaps they could be there until first describtion, don't know if thats sensible?)
they probably exist for the listing. :) if it would be possible to have that diretly in the page, aboves would be probably less needed.
Thus, we have Locale Camden, NW1 and the London Borough or Camden, which are three overlapping areas.
ok nice, thanks for your feedback.
nice evening
-- maks
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Thomas Klausner