From jkg@earth.li Tue Nov 23 02:49:35 2004
From: James Green <jkg@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:50:09 +0000
Message-ID: <20041123025009.GF12474@jimbo.org.uk>
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Hi,

People interested in projects similar to OpenGuides might be interested
to see http://wiki.ournottingham.net/, whose creator apparently felt
that http://nottingham.openguides.org/ didn't quite fulfill Nottingham's
collaborative-city-guide needs[1].

It uses MediaWiki, which is cool in some ways (discussion tabs!) but
lacks features I for one consider important in OpenGuides (structured
metadata, x-y coordinates) and apparently the content it released under
the GFDL, though this information is hard to find without a spot of
digging.

While we're on the subject, does anyone know if the GFDL and CC by-sa
2.0 licence are "compatible" in either direction? That is to say, can
content from either of these guides be easily included in the other? My
rough understanding of the licences suggests not, but IANAL.

Cheers,
James

[1] Grumble. This "providing content" lark sure is hard.
-- 
jkg((-.+)?@(|the\.)earth.li|@(jimbo|wonky)\.org\.uk|03u(a)cs\.nott\.ac\.uk)
Reader, suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of
Congress.  But I repeat myself.
		-- Mark Twain


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From kake@earth.li Tue Nov 23 15:49:18 2004
From: Kake L Pugh <kake@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:49:55 +0000
Message-ID: <20041123154955.GB15536@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <20041123025009.GF12474@jimbo.org.uk>
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On Tue 23 Nov 2004, James Green <jkg(a)earth.li> wrote:
> It uses MediaWiki, which is cool in some ways (discussion tabs!)

I would not be against having discussion tabs in OpenGuides - anyone
got any ideas for a nice way to implement this?

Kake


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From openguides@downlode.org Wed Nov 24 01:21:38 2004
From: Earle Martin <openguides@downlode.org>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:21:38 +0000
Message-ID: <20041124012138.GB15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
In-Reply-To: <20041123154955.GB15536@the.earth.li>
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On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 03:49:55PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
> On Tue 23 Nov 2004, James Green <jkg(a)earth.li> wrote:
> > It uses MediaWiki, which is cool in some ways (discussion tabs!)
> 
> I would not be against having discussion tabs in OpenGuides - anyone
> got any ideas for a nice way to implement this?

<!-- Begin TT code - warning, not tested -->

[% IF node.name.match('^Talk:') %]
[% original_node_name = node.name.replace('^Talk:', '') %]
<a href="[% full_cgi_url %]?[% original_node_name %]">
[% END %]
Article
[% IF node.name.match('^Talk:') %]
</a>
[% END %]

[% UNLESS node.name.match('^Talk:') %]
<a href="[% full_cgi_url %]?Talk:[% node.name %]">
[% END %]
Discuss
[% UNLESS node.name.match('^Talk:') %]
</a>
[% END %]

<!-- End TT code -->

-- 
Earle Martin
                 http://downlode.org/
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/


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From kake@earth.li Wed Nov 24 01:23:50 2004
From: Kake L Pugh <kake@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:24:27 +0000
Message-ID: <20041124012427.GA663@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <20041124012138.GB15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
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On Wed 24 Nov 2004, Earle Martin <openguides(a)downlode.org> wrote:
> [% IF node.name.match('^Talk:') %]

In other words, have the discussion page for the node "Foo" be called
"Talk:Foo"?

Kake


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From openguides@downlode.org Wed Nov 24 13:18:47 2004
From: Earle Martin <openguides@downlode.org>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:18:47 +0000
Message-ID: <20041124131846.GC15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
In-Reply-To: <20041124012427.GA663@the.earth.li>
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On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 01:24:27AM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
> On Wed 24 Nov 2004, Earle Martin <openguides(a)downlode.org> wrote:
> > [% IF node.name.match('^Talk:') %]
> 
> In other words, have the discussion page for the node "Foo" be called
> "Talk:Foo"?

Maybe, maybe not; I just ripp^H^H^H^Hborrowed that idea from MediaWiki. We
could call them anything we like, but general idea is as simple as having a
certain name prefix to create a new "namespace". It's then simple to
templatamatically give pages with matching titles special features.

-- 
Earle Martin
                 http://downlode.org/
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/


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From kake@earth.li Wed Nov 24 16:20:27 2004
From: Kake L Pugh <kake@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:21:05 +0000
Message-ID: <20041124162105.GA24070@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <20041124131846.GC15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
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On Wed 24 Nov 2004, Earle Martin <openguides(a)downlode.org> wrote:
> It's then simple to templatamatically give pages with matching
> titles special features.

I'd rather keep as much logic as possible out of the templates.

Kake


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From openguides@downlode.org Thu Nov 25 19:25:51 2004
From: Earle Martin <openguides@downlode.org>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:25:51 +0000
Message-ID: <20041125192551.GF15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
In-Reply-To: <20041124162105.GA24070@the.earth.li>
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On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 04:21:05PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
> I'd rather keep as much logic as possible out of the templates.

In conversation yesterday, Kake told me of her idea to store discussion
pages in a special metadata field that is read and displayed and formatted
and edited just like a normal node content field, by giving the special
argument action=discuss to the script. I like this idea a lot.

-- 
Earle Martin
                 http://downlode.org/
http://purl.oclc.org/net/earlemartin/


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From tom@jerakeen.org Thu Nov 25 21:41:03 2004
From: Tom Insam <tom@jerakeen.org>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:41:03 +0000
Message-ID: <B49E8808-3F2A-11D9-A46D-000D93C2F57C@jerakeen.org>
In-Reply-To: <20041125192551.GF15826@mythix.realprogrammers.com>
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On Nov 25, 2004, at 19:25, Earle Martin wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 04:21:05PM +0000, Kake L Pugh wrote:
>> I'd rather keep as much logic as possible out of the templates.
>
> In conversation yesterday, Kake told me of her idea to store discussion
> pages in a special metadata field that is read and displayed and 
> formatted
> and edited just like a normal node content field, by giving the special
> argument action=discuss to the script. I like this idea a lot.

Tom disagrees. You'd clog the version history of the main page with 
commentary. It really needs to be a separate page.



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From yo@martinferrari.com.ar Fri Nov 26 02:34:22 2004
From: Martin Ferrari <yo@martinferrari.com.ar>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:34:43 -0300
Message-ID: <1101436483.3490.2.camel@bubulina.casandra.mine.nu>
In-Reply-To: <B49E8808-3F2A-11D9-A46D-000D93C2F57C@jerakeen.org>
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El jue, 25-11-2004 a las 18:41, Tom Insam escribió:

> > In conversation yesterday, Kake told me of her idea to store discussion
> > pages in a special metadata field that is read and displayed and 
> > formatted
> > and edited just like a normal node content field, by giving the special
> > argument action=discuss to the script. I like this idea a lot.
> 
> Tom disagrees. You'd clog the version history of the main page with 
> commentary. It really needs to be a separate page.

I agree with Tom, a commentary should not make a new version of the main
node. I think the Mediawiki approach is a good one. You can, of course,
create a separate namespace for comments, but I think it would be harder
to do.

My $ 0.2...



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From kake@earth.li Fri Nov 26 07:13:09 2004
From: Kake L Pugh <kake@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:13:47 +0000
Message-ID: <20041126071347.GA18408@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <B49E8808-3F2A-11D9-A46D-000D93C2F57C@jerakeen.org>
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On Thu 25 Nov 2004, Tom Insam <tom(a)jerakeen.org> wrote:
> Tom disagrees. You'd clog the version history of the main page with 
> commentary. It really needs to be a separate page.

Just make it a different type of edit that isn't displayed in the
history by default, same way as minor tidying only shows up in recent
changes if you ask for it.

Kake



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From kake@earth.li Fri Nov 26 07:14:34 2004
From: Kake L Pugh <kake@earth.li>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:15:13 +0000
Message-ID: <20041126071513.GB18408@the.earth.li>
In-Reply-To: <1101436483.3490.2.camel@bubulina.casandra.mine.nu>
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On Thu 25 Nov 2004, Martin Ferrari <yo(a)martinferrari.com.ar> wrote:
> I think the Mediawiki approach is a good one. You can, of course,
> create a separate namespace for comments, but I think it would be
> harder to do.

Isn't creating a separate namespace for comments ("Talk:Foo") exactly
what Mediawiki does?

Kake



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From adam.auden@gmail.com Fri Nov 26 08:59:20 2004
From: Adam Auden <adam.auden@gmail.com>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:59:42 +0000
Message-ID: <a4f129ab041126005919e5d3c5@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20041126071347.GA18408@the.earth.li>
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On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 07:13:47 +0000, Kake L Pugh <kake(a)earth.li> wrote:

> Just make it a different type of edit that isn't displayed in the
> history by default, same way as minor tidying only shows up in recent
> changes if you ask for it.

Indeed, sounds nifty.  Would be good to preserve the metadata about
the last 'real' edit though, not the last comment.

A.

-- 
Adam Auden - UNIX Metal Geek
whois bimble.net


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From yo@martinferrari.com.ar Fri Nov 26 13:21:56 2004
From: =?utf-8?q?Mart=C3=ADn?= Ferrari <yo@martinferrari.com.ar>
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:22:19 -0300
Message-ID: <1101475338.4485.3.camel@astor.decidir.net>
In-Reply-To: <20041126071513.GB18408@the.earth.li>
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On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 04:15, Kake L Pugh wrote:

> > I think the Mediawiki approach is a good one. You can, of course,
> > create a separate namespace for comments, but I think it would be
> > harder to do.
> 
> Isn't creating a separate namespace for comments ("Talk:Foo") exactly
> what Mediawiki does?

Well, not exactly as I see it, is more of a convention. A separate
namespace could be implemented adding a nodetype metadata, so the
comments page would be also Foo, but with nodetype=comments



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From justin+openguides@dicatek.com Mon Nov 29 21:57:11 2004
From: justin+openguides@dicatek.com
To: openguides-dev@lists.openguides.org
Subject: Re: [OpenGuides-Dev] yet another similar project
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:57:48 -0800
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0411291354340.14752@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>
In-Reply-To: <1101475338.4485.3.camel@astor.decidir.net>
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On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, [ISO-8859-1] Mart�n Ferrari wrote:

> On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 04:15, Kake L Pugh wrote:
>
> > > I think the Mediawiki approach is a good one. You can, of course,
> > > create a separate namespace for comments, but I think it would be
> > > harder to do.
> >
> > Isn't creating a separate namespace for comments ("Talk:Foo") exactly
> > what Mediawiki does?
>
> Well, not exactly as I see it, is more of a convention. A separate
> namespace could be implemented adding a nodetype metadata, so the
> comments page would be also Foo, but with nodetype=comments

If one kept comments in a second and separate database, having the node
name be the same would work easily...

Justin



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