[OGDev] [Fwd: Re: a first shot at some questions....]

[IvorW]

This was originally posted as a private reply, but really there's no 
reason why I shouldn't go public with it.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: a first shot at some questions....
Date: 	Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:15:09 +0100
From: 	Ivor Williams
To: 	M.B.Gaved <M.B.Gaved at open.ac.uk>, t.heath at open.ac.uk
References: 
<E0FEA5DF00E59E409F90C854A1B45BAA6B600C at EPPING-EVS1.open.ac.uk>



>
>A. Your Open Guide
>------------------
>
>1. How would you describe the Open Guide to somebody who wanted to find out about it? 
>  
>
My answer to this question depends on how technical or otherwise, the 
person is. For the completely non-technical, I describe the Guide as a 
website with lots of reviews of pubs and restaurants, and useful 
information about anything in London. For the more technical, I use the 
word wiki, and explain (if they don't know the concept) that anyone can 
contribute.

>2. Who is the anticipated audience for your Open Guide? Who are your users right now? 
>  
>
I think it's quite a broad portfolio. The initial intention was 
targetting the guide at geeks. As such, the initial subjects we were 
covering were ones of interest to geeks, particularly London.pm. 
However, I saw the guide as having a much broader scope, and started 
writing pages that could be of interest to anybody, and the content has 
developed along those lines.

In terms of the current user base, I think it's quite diverse. I keep 
running into people who've already heard of OpenGuides. I have 
personally had feedback from CAMRA, from an employee of London 
Transport, and from trade unionists finding my page on the West London 
Trades Union Club.

>3. What do you see as the purpose of the open guides? (feel free to get philosophical!) e.g. how is it different from other wikis/city guides?
>  
>
I think the primary function is to inform. A second aim is to be 
objective. A third is to provide a vehicle for feedback, and rapid 
updating by the virtual community that exists on account of their 
discovering OpenGuides.

Other city guides tend to be commercial, pandering to the wishes of 
paying sponsors, and of limited use and limited objectivity. Also, 
because "anyone can edit", I feel comfortable that I can visit an 
establishment listed in the guide, and update it with my findings.

Compared with other wikis, the structured metadata is what sets 
OpenGuides apart. In particular, the geodata can be used for finding 
distances and plotting points on maps.  I've not seen other wikis that 
can do this.

>4. Are there rules and regulations users must follow? How about your admin team (e.g. how do you make decisions)?
>  
>
My rules for contributors are set down in the page "Wiki Etiquette", 
which was entirely my own wording. Common sense is the principle that 
applies - I translated this into the Wiki Etiquette page so that others 
would have a reference point where we could all agree on our policy. 
This page has had to evolve over time, with changes in software, changes 
in copyright and licensing policy, and in the light of various kinds of 
abuse and attacks.

When it comes to admin decisions, the "common sense" rule applies. If 
we're unsure we'll probably make a change (or change the node back) but 
keeping the controvertial revision available. Something that's blatant 
spam or offensive, will just get deleted. More recently, I have been 
keeping an admin log page for deletes, so that we have a record, 
including recording the IP addresses of any spammers and suchlike. I 
tend to email the other admins directly (not via a list) for matters 
which are sensitive, e.g. a security hole I discovered early on.

>B. Your role in the Open Guide
>------------------------------
>
>1. How did you come to be involved in the Open Guide?- can you tell me what you do?
>  
>
This was through London Perl Mongers. I was one of the 3 founders of the 
first guide - involved both as a major contributor, and as a software 
developer.

In terms of roles, I do pretty much everything bar the hosting. I don't 
have access to the box OGLondon is running on, but I run a mirrored copy 
on a couple of my machines.

>2. What was your goal when your Open Guide (or your involvement in it) started? What are the current goals? 
>  
>
The original goal of a useful guide to London that people can edit and 
keep up to date, has definitely been met, and is continuing to be met. 
The goal of sharing data and building a community of mutually supporting 
websites is being met, albeit from a specialist niche.

I'm finding it difficult to separate the goals of OGLondon and the goals 
of the OpenGuides project as a whole, since I am involved with the big 
picture, including software development. In many ways, I now think it's 
important to keep a standard common code base that all guides can share. 
It's tempting to look at ways of improving the software for London, but 
this feels wrong to me. Many of the developments that have happened, 
have been applied to individual guides, leading to a fragmented picture 
- this has created work for developers merging these patches in order 
for everyone to get the benefit.

>3. How long do you see yourself being involved in your Guide? 
>  
>
This is one of my main hobbies and loves. I don't see myself losing 
interest.

>4. Have people used the Guide in any ways you didn't expect? (and has 'vandalism' been a problem?)
>  
>
The most extreme case of vandalism was in September 2005, when Brazilian 
hackers managed to trash the London database. This took us offline for a 
few weeks, and lost some updates.

We also get regular spam attacks, though we are looking at ways of 
combatting them in software. Version history has been a godsend here, as 
we can always see what was there before, and indeed "diff" the content. 
The spam situation for London is under control, as enough admins watch 
the recent changes, and spam gets deleted fairly promptly.

We've also had salesmen creating pages for their own establishments - 
restaurants, aromatherapy, a chain of car showrooms, even TimeOut 
magazine! What happens is that we tend to blockquote what has been 
written as "Some anonymous contributor, presumably from XYZ, wrote the 
following:" and add that one of our regular contributors will review the 
place properly.

There was also the skating wars - two rival skate clubs, one of which 
was defacing the entry for the other, which resulted in a ban. And there 
was the pedicabs page, where someone keeps changing some of the web 
links so they don't work. I tend to spot edits like that, and reach for 
the "delete" and file the IP address in the Admin Log. I don't actually 
have the power to ban anybody, but I would drop a mail to those that do.

>C. Publicity and outreach
>-------------------------
>
>1. Do you publicise your Guide? How?
>  
>
Word of mouth, and internet. We don't have any paid advertising, as this 
is not only a potential waste of money, but would also probably upset a 
few of our community as getting commercial. We had the same reaction 
when we tried running Google ads.

Sometimes if I'm in the mood in a pub or restaurant, I'll mention to the 
proprietor that I have a website that does reviews, and will be writing 
one when I get home. This has got me a free drink on a couple of occasions.

>D. Future of the Guide
>----------------------
>
>1. How successful do you think the project is? Which goals have been met? Which remain elusive?
>  
>
In terms of London, I think the goal of a useful guide has been met. Our 
coverage is patchy, but that is due to the distribution of our 
contributors' homes and workplaces. Over time this will improve. I think 
we have built a successful community of contributors. In terms of Google 
search league ladders, we are well up there.

For OpenGuides as a whole, there is still much to do. Much of this is in 
the realm of software development, but we could also do more in terms of 
spreading the word across the globe. There are many cities that have 
potential for a guide - it's just a matter of people who are there 
linking up to create guides.

>2. How long do you see the project going on for?
>  
>
I see this as a continuous process, rather than a project with a defined 
finishing line.

>3. If someone told you they were planning to start an open guide, what advice would you give them?
>  
>
How serious about it are you? How much time have you got to put into it? 
This is going to occupy you if you want to get it off the ground.

How many people have you got to help as contributors? You need a minimum 
of 3 (counting yourself), ideally between 3 and 12. Once you have 
launched, you will hopefully acquire new contributors.

How long before you can get to 100 pages? Set this as your first 
milestone. Don't try and launch until you've got 100 pages.

If you are talking about siphoning content from somewhere else, that's 
different - you may be able to launch straight away. If this is the 
case, double check things like copyright and terms of use.

Don't worry too much about the technicalities of hosting - we can offer 
that to you as a service if you need it (but if you want to host your 
own guide, that's OK too). What we can't do for you is: (a) be there at 
your city and (b) have all the local knowledge to write detailed pages.

Have a good look at the other guides that are out there, and make use of 
the best ideas (in your mind).

Join the dev list if you are running a guide. That's the best way of 
finding out what else is happening to OpenGuides elsewhere. Also hang 
out on IRC, where you'll find plenty of others running guides.